From sage-owner Mon Jan 3 22:45:59 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA14286; Mon, 3 Jan 94 22:45:59 PST Received: from ee.tamu.edu by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA14279; Mon, 3 Jan 94 22:45:56 PST Received: by ee.tamu.edu (5.61/1.34) id AA06953; Tue, 4 Jan 94 00:49:30 -0600 From: desilva@ee.tamu.edu (Buveneka K Desilva) Message-Id: <9401040649.AA06953@ee.tamu.edu> Subject: To: sage@usenix.ORG Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 00:49:30 -0600 (CST) Organization: Texas A & M University Department: Electrical Engineering Phone: (409) 845 3209X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 21 Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk send sage membership From sage-owner Mon Jan 3 22:44:33 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA14242; Mon, 3 Jan 94 22:44:33 PST Received: from ee.tamu.edu by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA14235; Mon, 3 Jan 94 22:44:30 PST Received: by ee.tamu.edu (5.61/1.34) id AA06919; Tue, 4 Jan 94 00:48:03 -0600 From: desilva@ee.tamu.edu (Buveneka K Desilva) Message-Id: <9401040648.AA06919@ee.tamu.edu> Subject: To: sage@usenix.ORG Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 00:48:03 -0600 (CST) Organization: Texas A & M University Department: Electrical Engineering Phone: (409) 845 3209X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 25 Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk send sage.info membership From sage-owner Thu Jan 13 11:40:36 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA17584; Thu, 13 Jan 94 11:40:36 PST Received: from sifon.cc.mcgill.ca by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA17577; Thu, 13 Jan 94 11:40:32 PST Received: from amaretto.CC.McGill.CA by sifon.cc.mcgill.ca with SMTP (5.65a/IDA-1.4.2b/CC-Guru-2b) id AA03193 (mail destined for sage@usenix.org) on Thu, 13 Jan 94 14:40:21 -0500 Received: by amaretto.CC.McGill.CA (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03629; Thu, 13 Jan 94 14:43:37 EST Message-Id: <9401131943.AA03629@amaretto.CC.McGill.CA> From: thorn@amaretto.cc.mcgill.ca (Ronald-Robert Hall) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 14:43:36 -0500 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91) To: sage@usenix.ORG Subject: Looking for Auto-Maintanence of DNS Tools Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Sorry if this is not the appropriate group, but it seems likely that if the info is anywhere this group would know. I had a list someone gave me when I was at the recent LISA conference. The list contained various bits of software that they said would aid in the maintanence of DNS. The question is now, would anyone care to share their recommendations and/or software? I would also like to know of any pitfalls, traps and gotchas people have experienced in doing this. Thanks in advance. -- Ron Hall | DISCLAIMER: If you are | "If there is a light at Analyst | willing to take my word for | the end of the tunnel, | it, then you are in more | then it is time to order +1 514 398 3718 | trouble than you you thought | more tunnel !" From sage-owner Thu Jan 13 14:05:07 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA19127; Thu, 13 Jan 94 14:05:07 PST Received: from usl.novell.com (usl.usl.com) by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA19120; Thu, 13 Jan 94 14:05:05 PST Message-Id: <9401132205.AA19120@usenix.ORG> Subject: Novell Usability Testing To: sage@usenix.ORG, groupname@warren.mentorg.com Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 17:08:08 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: mww@usl.com From: mww@usl.com (Matthew Wood) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Received: from summit by summit.novell.com; Thu, 13 Jan 1994 17:04 EST Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1314 Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Re: Request for Usability Test Participants The Novell UNIX (R) Systems Group will be performing usability tests for UnixWare (TM) Release 2.0 documentation. Participants with various levels of expertise are needed to help test the usability of the UnixWare Installation Guide, an online browser, and our administration and user guides. We are particularly interested in UNIX and NetWare administrators, or experienced DOS/Windows users. Testing will occur continuously over the next seven months, and will usually require about two hours per session. Non-Novell employees will be paid a $10 - $15 honorarium at the completion of each test session. Testing is conducted at the Summit, N.J. lab. A typical test session involves reading online documentation, and attempting to perform specified tasks on our lab system while "thinking out loud." For example, you might be asked to review and try out a procedure for adding a network printer. The sessions are video and audiotaped. This is a chance to voice your opinions, and help shape the next generation of UNIX documentation. It is also an opportunity to get an early glimpse at the next release of UnixWare. If you are willing to participate in a test session, please send e-mail to mww@summit.novel.com. Thank you all! Matt Wood From sage-owner Thu Jan 13 14:58:37 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA19834; Thu, 13 Jan 94 14:58:37 PST Received: from usl.novell.com (usl.usl.com) by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA19821; Thu, 13 Jan 94 14:58:34 PST Message-Id: <9401132258.AA19821@usenix.ORG> Subject: Usability Testing (correction) To: sage@usenix.ORG, groupname@warren.mentorg.com Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 18:01:39 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: mww@usl.com From: mww@usl.com (Matthew Wood) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Received: from summit by summit.novell.com; Thu, 13 Jan 1994 17:58 EST Content-Type: text Content-Length: 190 Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Whoops! Sorry folks. Those interested in usability testing UnixWare (TM) 2.0 documentation should contact Matt Wood at mww@summit.novell.com (that's novell with two ll's). Thank you. Matt From sage-owner Thu Jan 13 16:08:21 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA20671; Thu, 13 Jan 94 16:08:21 PST Received: from attain.ICD.Teradyne.COM by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA20594; Thu, 13 Jan 94 16:04:26 PST Received: from beaux.ATWC.Teradyne.COM (beaux-gate.atwc.teradyne.com) by attain.ICD.Teradyne.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/TER-1.45/attain-1.35) id AA22397; Thu, 13 Jan 94 16:04:23 PST Received: by beaux.ATWC.Teradyne.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/TER-1.35/beaux-1.6) id AA01294; Thu, 13 Jan 94 16:03:57 PST Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 16:03:57 PST From: deb@ATWC.Teradyne.COM (MOTHER DAEMON) Message-Id: <9401140003.AA01294@beaux.ATWC.Teradyne.COM> To: sage-jobs@usenix.ORG Subject: System & Network Mgr Job Description Cc: sage@usenix.ORG, sage-active@usenix.ORG Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk I am in immediate need of Job Description Levels for System Administrator (Beginning Level to Management Level). Some time back someone posted (somewhere) such a list, but that was ages ago and I have not been able to find a copy of it in my files. Teradyne ATWC has been changing how everyone's salary is figured, and my current job description and title as Development Engineer does not at all match my job as a network and systems manager. This is THE opportunity to get it changed, and I have to have all the info into personnel before one week from today (13 Jan, 1994). Any and ALL help Is NEEDED and APPRECIATED...!!! Debbie Heller (who really ought to be writing a C program, but is helping a user better understand what he is doing on UNIX.) __^__ __^__ (_____)-------------------------------------------------------(_____) | / | Deborah Heller Network/Systems Admin | \ | | / | Email: deb@atwc.teradyne.com | \ | |_/_| UUCP: {...}!netcomsv!zehntel!deb |_\_| (_____)-------------------------------------------------------(_____) ^ Thanx to Rune Gronaas! ^ From sage-owner Thu Jan 13 16:23:25 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA20779; Thu, 13 Jan 94 16:23:25 PST Received: from sfo.erg.sri.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA20734; Thu, 13 Jan 94 16:18:29 PST Received: from localhost.erg.sri.com by sfo.erg.sri.com (5.65/2.7davy) id AA04068; Thu, 13 Jan 94 16:17:20 -0800 Message-Id: <9401140017.AA04068@sfo.erg.sri.com> To: deb@atwc.teradyne.com (MOTHER DAEMON) Cc: sage@usenix.ORG, sage-jobs@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: System & Network Mgr Job Description In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jan 94 16:03:57 PST." <9401140003.AA01294@beaux.ATWC.Teradyne.COM> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 16:17:17 -0800 From: zwicky@erg.sri.com Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk The SAGE job descriptions, in unornamented form, are available from ftp.sage.usenix.org (via ftp of course). That'll give you System Administrator titles. The long version, with description of related titles, lovely formatting, and examples, suitable for handing to your personnel department, is a physical object only. Everybody who was a SAGE member in October either got one with their registration packet at LISA, or was mailed one in December. If you want more copies, you weren't a SAGE member then, or your dog/office mate/carnivorous paperwork piles ate yours, contact office@usenix.org to order or call 510-528-8649. ($5 for members, more than that for non-members - I'd look it up but the carnivorous paperwork pile got mine.) Elizabeth D. Zwicky zwicky@erg.sri.com From sage-owner Fri Feb 4 13:20:33 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA22353; Fri, 4 Feb 94 13:20:33 PST Received: from Sun.COM by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA22346; Fri, 4 Feb 94 13:20:31 PST Received: from snail.Sun.COM (snail.Corp.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05210; Fri, 4 Feb 94 13:20:20 PST Received: from East.Sun.COM by snail.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13803; Fri, 4 Feb 94 13:19:28 PST Received: from sunrock.East.Sun.COM by East.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28366; Fri, 4 Feb 94 16:19:25 EST Received: from kamikaze.East.Sun.COM by sunrock.East.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02425; Fri, 4 Feb 94 16:19:19 EST Date: Fri, 4 Feb 94 16:19:19 EST From: hebert@sunrock.East.Sun.COM (Jim Hebert {*Prof Services} Sun Rochester) Message-Id: <9402042119.AA02425@sunrock.East.Sun.COM> To: sage@usenix.ORG Subject: sage-jobs descriptions Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk -- 3d stereogram - slightly cross your eyes and relax them to see row depths h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b e e e e e e e e e e e e e r r r r r r r r r r r tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt From sage-owner Wed Feb 23 07:03:48 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA09693; Wed, 23 Feb 94 07:03:48 PST Received: from mail-relay (mail-relay.olsen.ch) by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA09686; Wed, 23 Feb 94 07:03:41 PST Received: from rouble.olsen.ch by mail-relay with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0pZL95-0003TnC; Wed, 23 Feb 94 16:05 MET Received: from leone.olsen.ch by rouble.olsen.ch (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13946; Wed, 23 Feb 94 16:03:41 +0100 Received: by leone.olsen.ch (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12712; Wed, 23 Feb 94 16:03:40 +0100 Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 16:03:40 +0100 From: lindy@olsen.ch Message-Id: <9402231503.AA12712@leone.olsen.ch> To: sage@usenix.ORG Subject: membership? Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk how do I join? I am already a usenix member. Thanks, lindy@olsen.ch From sage-owner Wed Feb 23 13:19:18 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA17281; Wed, 23 Feb 94 13:19:18 PST Received: from nkosi.well.sf.ca.us by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA17274; Wed, 23 Feb 94 13:19:15 PST Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nkosi.well.sf.ca.us (8.6.6.Beta8/8.6.6.Beta8) id NAA23360 for sage@usenix.org; Wed, 23 Feb 1994 13:19:25 -0800 Received: from zen by z-code.com (4.1/NBN-16/ZC-13) id AA18542; Wed, 23 Feb 94 13:10:40 PST Received: by zen (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @z-code.z-code.com:usenix.org!sage id AA07274; Wed, 23 Feb 94 13:14:44 -0800 From: "Linda Branagan" Message-Id: <9402231314.ZM7272@zen.z-code.com> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 13:14:43 -0800 Reply-To: linda@z-code.z-code.com X-Mailer: Z-Mail_Lite (3.2dev.2622 22feb94) To: sage@usenix.ORG Subject: Job descriptions? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi! I'm trying to hire a system administrator, and I'm getting lots of resumes that says things like: "qualified for SAGE junior sys admin II positions" Can I get a list of these job categories so I have some idea what stuff like this means? Linda Branagan linda@z-code.com Z-Code Software Corp. 415-499-8649 (main number) San Rafael, CA 415-499-3998 ext. 121 (direct) From sage-owner Wed Feb 23 13:59:04 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA18356; Wed, 23 Feb 94 13:59:04 PST Received: from sjc.erg.sri.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA18349; Wed, 23 Feb 94 13:59:03 PST Received: from localhost.erg.sri.com by sjc.erg.sri.com (5.65/2.7davy) id AA03224; Wed, 23 Feb 94 13:59:08 -0800 Message-Id: <9402232159.AA03224@sjc.erg.sri.com> To: linda@z-code.z-code.com Cc: sage@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: Job descriptions? In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 23 Feb 94 13:14:43 -0800. <9402231314.ZM7272@zen.z-code.com> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 13:59:07 -0800 From: Bryan McDonald Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk >I'm trying to hire a system administrator, and I'm >getting lots of resumes that says things like: >"qualified for SAGE junior sys admin II positions" > >Can I get a list of these job categories so I >have some idea what stuff like this means? The Internet version of this document is at ftp.sage.usenix.org:/pub/sage/jobs/jobs-descriptions.Z and the enhanced, paper only version is available from the USENIX office, you can send email to office@usenix.org for further information. +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Bryan McDonald | Computer, Hardware, And Operations Support bigmac@erg.sri.com | CHAOS Postmaster-Systems Administrator | ITAD - SRI International +------------------------------BayLISA President-------------------------------+ +------USENIX/SAGE (System Administrators Guild) Publications Coordinator------+ From sage-owner Wed Feb 23 14:14:34 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA18768; Wed, 23 Feb 94 14:14:34 PST Received: from sfo.erg.sri.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA18761; Wed, 23 Feb 94 14:14:32 PST Received: from localhost.erg.sri.com by sfo.erg.sri.com (5.65/2.7davy) id AA13118; Wed, 23 Feb 94 14:14:34 -0800 Message-Id: <9402232214.AA13118@sfo.erg.sri.com> To: linda@z-code.z-code.com Cc: sage@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: Job descriptions? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 23 Feb 94 13:14:43 PST." <9402231314.ZM7272@zen.z-code.com> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 14:14:33 -0800 From: zwicky@erg.sri.com Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk The text of the job descriptions is available from ftp.sage.usenix.org, or you can get a beautifully formatted booklet with additional information from USENIX for $5.00 if you're a SAGE member and $7.50 if you're not. You can contact USENIX at office@usenix.org or at 510-528-8649. Elizabeth D. Zwicky zwicky@erg.sri.com From sage-owner Wed Feb 23 14:36:04 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA19135; Wed, 23 Feb 94 14:36:04 PST Received: from inet.research.att.com (research.att.com) by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA19127; Wed, 23 Feb 94 14:36:01 PST Message-Id: <9402232236.AA19127@usenix.ORG> From: pep@inet.research.att.com Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 17:35 EST To: linda@z-code.z-code.com Cc: sage@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: Job descriptions? Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk You can ftp them in short form from ftp.sage.usenix.org. You can purchase them from USENIX ($5 to SAGE members, $7.50 to non-members) by contacting the USENIX office at office@usenix.org or by calling (510) 528-8649. The booklet is called "Job Descriptions for System Administrators," edited by Tina Darmohray. It is #1 in SAGE's "Short Topics in System Administration" series. pep From sage-owner Mon Feb 28 17:37:29 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA24272; Mon, 28 Feb 94 17:37:29 PST Received: from ora.com (ruby.ora.com) by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA24265; Mon, 28 Feb 94 17:37:24 PST Received: from rock.west.ora.com by ruby (8.6.5/) Received: by rock.west.ora.com (5.65c/Spike-2.1) id AA22643; Mon, 28 Feb 1994 17:36:35 -0800 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 17:32:40 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Yoder Subject: Help on a magazine article I'm writing To: sage@usenix.ORG Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, there. I'm writing an article for ora.com about O'Reilly's upcoming product, Internet In A Box, and I'd like to start the piece with some real-life anecdotes or a brief overview of the current difficulties of connecting to and navigating through the Internet. Anyone out there have a story to tell? Thanks for your help. Barbara Yoder barbara@ora.com From sage-owner Tue Mar 8 10:33:09 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA13835; Tue, 8 Mar 94 10:33:09 PST Received: from alpha.xerox.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA13826; Tue, 8 Mar 94 10:33:06 PST Received: from ES_XC15_MS1.ES_XC15.Xerox.xns by alpha.xerox.com via XNS id <14452(1)>; Tue, 8 Mar 1994 10:32:41 PST X-Ns-Transport-Id: 0000AA00B50BA1B9311E Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 10:32:34 PST From: Bruce_Hamilton.LAX1B@xerox.com Subject: e-mail addresses for USENIX board candidates? To: sage@usenix.ORG, office@usenix.ORG Cc: BHamilton.LAX1B@xerox.com Reply-To: BHamilton.LAX1B@xerox.com Message-Id: <" 8-Mar-94 10:32:34 PST".*.Bruce_A._Hamilton.LAX1B@Xerox.com> Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Can somebody please broadcast e-mail addresses for the USENIX board candidates, so we can ask them some questions? That information was omitted from the ballot mailing I just received. I will support candidates who favor selling or abolished "Computing Systems" and reducing my dues by approx. $15/year. I don't need any slick, expensive, reviewed, academic, semi-relevant, unread journals sitting on my shelf (actually trashcan/landfill), thank you. p.s. I think "login;" is great! It would be even GREATER if we could opt for an *e-mail only* version and take a $2 dues cut. Unbundle, unbundle, unbundle. Power to the people! --Bruce BHamilton.LAX1B@Xerox.COM 310/333-3538 From sage-owner Tue Mar 8 14:58:00 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA20863; Tue, 8 Mar 94 14:58:00 PST Received: from leibniz.math.psu.edu by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA20856; Tue, 8 Mar 94 14:57:52 PST Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (jim@augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.131.77]) by leibniz.math.psu.edu (8.6.4/8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21136; Tue, 8 Mar 1994 17:57:53 -0500 Received: from localhost by augusta.math.psu.edu id ; Tue, 8 Mar 1994 17:57:51 -0500 Message-Id: <199403082257.RAA14851@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: BHamilton.LAX1B@xerox.com Cc: sage@usenix.ORG, office@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: e-mail addresses for USENIX board candidates? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 08 Mar 1994 10:32:34 PST." <" 8-Mar-94 10:32:34 PST".*.Bruce_A._Hamilton.LAX1B@Xerox.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.2 1/14/94 Date: Tue, 08 Mar 1994 17:57:47 -0500 From: Jim Duncan Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Bruce_Hamilton.LAX1B@xerox.com writes: > I will support candidates who favor selling or abolished "Computing Systems" > and reducing my dues by approx. $15/year. I don't need any slick, expensive, > reviewed, academic, semi-relevant, unread journals sitting on my shelf > (actually trashcan/landfill), thank you. No offense, but I think that voting for someone on so narrow an issue is wrong. I would hope that members would select board members based on their ability to lead and their responsiveness to the opinions and desires of the membership, not based on what they think of _Computing Systems_ (which, by the way, I think is one of the best things going for USENIX). I humbly suggest you voice your opinion about _Computing Systems_ *after* the election, either at the various open Board Meetings or via e-mail or USENET. There's ample opportunity to contact the board members, and in my experience, they *all* bend over backwards in responsiveness. They may not agree with you, but they'll make sure you are heard and your opinions are considered. Jim Jim Duncan Penn State Math Dept Systems Administrator "[A computer is] like an Old Testament god, with a lot of rules and no mercy." Joseph Campbell From sage-owner Wed Mar 9 19:23:26 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA19382; Wed, 9 Mar 94 19:23:26 PST Received: from csro.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA19128; Wed, 9 Mar 94 19:12:20 PST Received: by csro.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk (Smail3.1.28.1 #44) id m0peTV6-0001J6C; Wed, 9 Mar 94 19:01 GMT Message-Id: Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 19:01 GMT From: rogers@cogs.susx.ac.uk (Roger Sinnhuber) To: sage@usenix.ORG Subject: SAGE Information Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Could you send me some information about SAGE? Thanks Roger Sinnhuber School of Cognitive & Computing Sciences University of Sussex BRIGHTON, UK. BN1 9QH Telephone: + 44 273 678394 Fax: + 44 273 671320 Email: R.Sinnhuber@cogs.susx.ac.uk From sage-owner Thu Mar 10 01:09:16 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA25762; Thu, 10 Mar 94 01:09:16 PST Received: from relay1.UU.NET by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA25755; Thu, 10 Mar 94 01:09:11 PST Received: from csro.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AAwgpg16803; Thu, 10 Mar 94 04:09:14 -0500 Received: by csro.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk (Smail3.1.28.1 #44) id m0peTV6-0001J6C; Wed, 9 Mar 94 19:01 GMT Message-Id: Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 19:01 GMT From: rogers@cogs.susx.ac.uk (Roger Sinnhuber) To: sage@usenix.ORG Subject: SAGE Information Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Could you send me some information about SAGE? Thanks Roger Sinnhuber School of Cognitive & Computing Sciences University of Sussex BRIGHTON, UK. BN1 9QH Telephone: + 44 273 678394 Fax: + 44 273 671320 Email: R.Sinnhuber@cogs.susx.ac.uk From sage-owner Thu Mar 10 14:32:48 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA02269; Thu, 10 Mar 94 14:32:48 PST Received: from moriarty-ss2.cisco.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA02262; Thu, 10 Mar 94 14:32:46 PST Received: by moriarty-ss2.cisco.com id AA01731 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for sage@usenix.org); Thu, 10 Mar 1994 14:34:45 -0800 From: "Paul M. Moriarty" Message-Id: <199403102234.AA01731@moriarty-ss2.cisco.com> Subject: Re: Monday, 3/14 conference call To: pep@inet.research.att.com Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 14:34:44 -0800 (PST) Cc: sage@usenix.ORG In-Reply-To: <9403102225.AA02166@usenix.ORG> from "pep@inet.research.att.com" at Mar 10, 94 05:25:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 490 Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk pep@inet.research.att.com writes: > > The call has been set up from 3 - 5 pm EST (noon-2 pm PST). > Please call 0-700-453-7161 to join the call. > > Here's a breakdown of who will be partcipating: > > YES: > Pat Parseghian > Pat Wilson > Ellie Young + Diane DeMartini > Elizabeth Zwicky + Paul Evans + Bryan McDonald > Steve Simmons > > NO: > Tom Christiansen > > NO REPLY: > Paul Moriarty I am a no. I have another commitment which cannot be rescheduled. :-( > Peg Schafer > > From sage-owner Tue Mar 22 07:06:49 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA05067; Tue, 22 Mar 94 07:06:49 PST Received: from endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA05060; Tue, 22 Mar 94 07:06:45 PST Received: by endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov with SMTP id AA09272 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Tue, 22 Mar 1994 10:03:54 -0500 Message-Id: <199403221503.AA09272@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov> To: sage@usenix.ORG Subject: about the catalog Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 10:03:54 -0500 From: mikeg@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk If a human gets this, I requested the catalog from info@usenix.org. Is there a sage specific one? Any other info specific to sage I should request? thanks, Mike mikeg@asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov From sage-owner Tue Mar 22 09:10:49 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA05930; Tue, 22 Mar 94 09:10:49 PST Received: from Sun.COM by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA05923; Tue, 22 Mar 94 09:10:47 PST Received: from Central.Sun.COM (central.Central.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (sun-barr.Sun.COM) id AA13052; Tue, 22 Mar 94 09:10:50 PST Received: from dallas.Central.Sun.COM (dallas-bb) by Central.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26563; Tue, 22 Mar 94 11:10:28 CST Received: from aloha.Central.Sun.COM by dallas.Central.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1-900117) id AA28793; Tue, 22 Mar 94 11:10:23 CST Received: by aloha.Central.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA11555; Tue, 22 Mar 1994 11:08:52 +0600 Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 11:08:52 +0600 From: rick.chavez@dallas.Central.Sun.COM (Rick Chavez) Message-Id: <9403221708.AA11555@aloha.Central.Sun.COM> To: sage@usenix.ORG Subject: help X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 0 Sender: sage-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk From sage-members-owner Thu Mar 31 11:34:20 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA17840; Thu, 31 Mar 94 11:34:20 PST Received: from sfo.erg.sri.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA17833; Thu, 31 Mar 94 11:34:17 PST Received: by sfo.erg.sri.com (5.65/2.7davy) id AA09865; Thu, 31 Mar 94 11:34:26 -0800 Message-Id: <9403311934.AA09865@sfo.erg.sri.com> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 11:34:26 -0800 From: Elizabeth Zwicky To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Mailing list changes Cc: zwicky@erg.sri.com Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk In order to reduce the number of misdirected messages that end up on this mailing list, we have moved it to "sage-members@usenix.org". Mail sent to "sage@usenix.org" now receives the same message you get if you finger "sage@usenix.org", and is also forwarded to "office@usenix.org". Mail intended for discussion by SAGE members should be sent to "sage-members@usenix.org". We believe that this configuration will be more useful for everybody. Elizabeth D. Zwicky SAGE president zwicky@usenix.org From sage-members-owner Fri Apr 1 12:02:45 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA09777; Fri, 1 Apr 94 12:02:45 PST Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uucp5.netcom.com) by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA09769; Fri, 1 Apr 94 12:02:40 PST Received: from costamesa.esm.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.4/SMI-4.1) id LAA05329; Fri, 1 Apr 1994 11:56:55 -0800 Received: from [192.9.200.102] (esm.esm.com) by esm.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01538; Fri, 1 Apr 94 11:54:55 PST Message-Id: <9404011954.AA01538@esm.com> X-Sender: escott@costamesa.esm.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 11:53:35 -0800 To: sage-members@usenix.ORG From: escott@esm.com (E. Scott Menter) Subject: NYSA Meeting, Mon Apr 11, 6:15pm, Morgan Stanley, NYC Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk The NEW YORK SYSTEMS ADMINISTRATORS group (NYSA) ...will hold its next meeting on MONDAY MARCH 14th at 6:15PM. Come join dozens of other systems administrators from the New York area who will be getting together to swap war stories, get help with technical problems of all kinds, and to stay current on the state of the art in systems and network administration. In addition to our guest speaker, the meeting will feature a "Technical Open Forum," where you can ask attendees questions about technical problems that have you stumped. Our guest speaker for the evening will be from OpenVision, the rising systems management company that recently received yet another $28.8 million in funding. Our speaker will be discussing principles of high availability for Unix servers. As you may know, OpenVision has a high availability product, and I think it will be really interesting to hear about the challenges of building such a thing. As usual, our speaker has agreed to filter marketing noise from the presentation. If you read the summary of last month's meeting, you know that the conversation is lively, the topics relevant, and the after-meeting get together is fun. The meetings are well worth attending for area systems administrators, and you may catch yourself having a good time as well. The meeting will be chaired by Xev Gittler of Morgan Stanley. I will unfortunately not be able to attend this time due to the fact that I will be 3,000 miles away (Xev, can you get that teleconference thing set up in time?)... There is no admission charge. Snacks will be served. Afterwards, if there's enough interest (and there always is), we will be adjourning to a local tavern for further refreshment. LOCATION: Our host once again will be Morgan Stanley, 1251 Avenue Of The Americas, 19th Floor, New York, NY 10020. Morgan Stanley is between 49th and 50th Streets: use the 50th Street entrance. Go up to the 19th floor, and signs or an attendant will guide you to the meeting room. Anybody who attended the previous meetings will tell you that there was plenty of snack food, plenty of space in the conference room, and in general that Morgan has been a very good host! See you there! For more information, please send email to or call 914/472-3635. +------------------------------------- E. Scott Menter, President escott@esm.com Enterprise Systems Management Corporation 2522 Chambers Road, Suite 110 +1-714-573-4075 Tustin, California 92680 +1-714-573-4076 FAX Visualize Whirled Peas From sage-members-owner Fri Apr 1 16:14:02 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA13507; Fri, 1 Apr 94 16:14:02 PST Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uucp5.netcom.com) by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA13500; Fri, 1 Apr 94 16:13:44 PST Received: from costamesa.esm.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.4/SMI-4.1) id PAA23224; Fri, 1 Apr 1994 15:57:47 -0800 Received: from esm.esm.com by esm.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB01871; Fri, 1 Apr 94 15:46:51 PST Message-Id: <9404012346.AB01871@esm.com> X-Sender: escott@costamesa.esm.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 15:45:31 -0800 To: nysa@esm.com, sage-members@usenix.ORG From: escott@esm.com (E. Scott Menter) Subject: NYSA Meeting, Mon Apr 11, 6:15pm, Morgan Stanley, NYC Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk [ Oops - my earlier posting went out with the wrong date. Sorry!! ] The NEW YORK SYSTEMS ADMINISTRATORS group (NYSA) ...will hold its next meeting on MONDAY APRIL 11th at 6:15PM. Come join dozens of other systems administrators from the New York area who will be getting together to swap war stories, get help with technical problems of all kinds, and to stay current on the state of the art in systems and network administration. In addition to our guest speaker, the meeting will feature a "Technical Open Forum," where you can ask attendees questions about technical problems that have you stumped. Our guest speaker for the evening will be from OpenVision, the rising systems management company that recently received yet another $28.8 million in funding. Our speaker will be discussing principles of high availability for Unix servers. As you may know, OpenVision has a high availability product, and I think it will be really interesting to hear about the challenges of building such a thing. As usual, our speaker has agreed to filter marketing noise from the presentation. If you read the summary of last month's meeting, you know that the conversation is lively, the topics relevant, and the after-meeting get together is fun. The meetings are well worth attending for area systems administrators, and you may catch yourself having a good time as well. The meeting will be chaired by Xev Gittler of Morgan Stanley. I will unfortunately not be able to attend this time due to the fact that I will be 3,000 miles away (Xev, can you get that teleconference thing set up in time?)... There is no admission charge. Snacks will be served. Afterwards, if there's enough interest (and there always is), we will be adjourning to a local tavern for further refreshment. LOCATION: Our host once again will be Morgan Stanley, 1251 Avenue Of The Americas, 19th Floor, New York, NY 10020. Morgan Stanley is between 49th and 50th Streets: use the 50th Street entrance. Go up to the 19th floor, and signs or an attendant will guide you to the meeting room. Anybody who attended the previous meetings will tell you that there was plenty of snack food, plenty of space in the conference room, and in general that Morgan has been a very good host! See you there! For more information, please send email to or call 914/472-3635. +------------------------------------- E. Scott Menter, President escott@esm.com Enterprise Systems Management Corporation 2522 Chambers Road, Suite 110 +1-714-573-4075 Tustin, California 92680 +1-714-573-4076 FAX Visualize Whirled Peas From sage-members-owner Wed Apr 6 07:28:05 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA14598; Wed, 6 Apr 94 07:28:05 PDT Received: from alpha.xerox.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA14591; Wed, 6 Apr 94 07:27:43 PDT Received: from avalon.parc.xerox.com ([13.1.101.241]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14414(6)>; Wed, 6 Apr 1994 07:27:30 PDT Received: by avalon.parc.xerox.com id <2440>; Wed, 6 Apr 1994 07:27:39 -0700 From: Mark Verber To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: SAGE WWW server Message-Id: <94Apr6.072739pdt.2440@avalon.parc.xerox.com> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 07:27:25 PDT Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk There is now a SAGE www server. The SAGE web is not extensively populated at this time, and what is there is still rather primitive. This existing web should get cleaned up, and a lot of new information will appear in the next few months. The URL for the SAGE server is http:/www.sage.usenix.org/sage/sage.html --Mark Verber From sage-members-owner Wed Apr 6 13:29:53 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA23790; Wed, 6 Apr 94 13:29:53 PDT Received: from alpha.xerox.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA23783; Wed, 6 Apr 94 13:29:51 PDT Received: from avalon.parc.xerox.com ([13.1.101.241]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14503(6)>; Wed, 6 Apr 1994 13:29:35 PDT Received: by avalon.parc.xerox.com id <2440>; Wed, 6 Apr 1994 13:29:48 -0700 From: Mark Verber To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: SAGE WWW server Message-Id: <94Apr6.132948pdt.2440@avalon.parc.xerox.com> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 13:29:36 PDT Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Sigh. There was a typo in the URL for the SAGE server. Thanks to the 10s of people who have pointed out my error. http://www.sage.usenix.org/sage/sage.html ^- note the double slash --mark From sage-members-owner Fri Apr 8 15:25:07 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA16322; Fri, 8 Apr 94 15:25:07 PDT Received: from gdwest.gd.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA16314; Fri, 8 Apr 94 15:25:04 PDT Received: from [134.120.10.231] by gdwest.gd.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29147; Fri, 8 Apr 94 15:25:00 PDT Message-Id: <9404082225.AA29147@gdwest.gd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 15:25:05 -0800 To: sage-members@usenix.ORG From: sandy@gdwest.gd.com (Sandra L. S. Dominguez) Subject: SAGE WWW server Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk There is now a SAGE www server. The SAGE web is not extensively populated at this time, and what is there is still rather primitive. This existing web should get cleaned up, and a lot of new information will appear in the next few months. The URL for the SAGE server is http:/www.sage.usenix.org/sage/sage.html --Mark Verber From sage-members-owner Mon Apr 18 09:32:54 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA10992; Mon, 18 Apr 94 09:32:54 PDT Received: from intrepid.erg.sri.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA10905; Mon, 18 Apr 94 09:28:41 PDT Received: from localhost.erg.sri.com by intrepid.erg.sri.com (5.65/2.7davy) id AA02432; Mon, 18 Apr 94 09:28:42 -0700 Message-Id: <9404181628.AA02432@intrepid.erg.sri.com> To: sage-announce@usenix.ORG, sage-members@usenix.ORG, sage-locals@usenix.ORG Cc: sage-board@usenix.ORG Subject: Announcements for local group events on SAGE mailing lists Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 09:28:41 -0700 From: ple@erg.sri.com Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk In response to a number of inquiries, the SAGE board decided at the March 14th board meeting to accept postings of announcements for system administration local group (e.g., BayLISA, BackBayLISA, $GROUPNAME, etc.) events on the sage-announce and sage-locals mailing lists. We ask, however, that such announcements *not* be posted to the sage-members mailing list. If you have any questions about this policy, please feel free to contact the SAGE board by sending email to sage-board@usenix.org. Paul Evans SAGE Secretary From sage-members-owner Mon May 2 09:04:05 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA16388; Mon, 2 May 94 09:04:05 PDT Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA16381; Mon, 2 May 94 09:04:03 PDT Date: Mon, 2 May 94 09:04:03 PDT From: ellie (Ellie Young) Message-Id: <9405021604.AA16381@usenix.ORG> To: sage-members Subject: CFP to Chair LISA IX (1995) Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Request for Proposals to Chair the 9th USENIX Systems Administration Conference (LISA IX) - 1995 The USENIX Association and its Special Technical Group SAGE, the System Administrators Guild, are seeking proposals from people interested in chairing the ninth LISA conference, to be held September 18-22, 1995 in Monterey, California. We are seeking an energetic person with the following qualifications: * Good administrative and planning skills * Experience in the administration of large installations * Good public speaking skills * Knowledge of timely and appropriate topics in the field * Excellent reputation in the field. * Ability to solicit good panel members and appropriate speakers * Attendance at previous LISA conferences * Time to invest to insure success of the conference Proposals should be brief (1 page) and should include the following: *Statement of Purpose (e.g., why have another one, how to improve it) *Form of submissions (e.g., abstracts, extended abstracts and/or full papers?) *Format (e.g., 3 days of technical sessions, single or double track, panel sessions, etc.) *List of topics to be addressed (as in the call for papers) *Special features as permitted by meeting facilities (such as invited talks, mini-workshops, panels, Work-in-Progress; (Note that BOFs, tutorials, vendor demos, and conference site selection/logistics are not part of the program chair's duties). *List of potential program committee members and/or a co-chair (Note that while most USENIX conferences have had an individual program chair, proposals requesting a co-chair are welcome. *Biography and references Proposal due date: May 31, 1994 Please address all inquiries and proposals to the Association's Executive Director, Ellie Young . You may also request a copy of the Association's guidelines for program chair. Proposals will be evaluated and selection of a chair made by a subcommittee composed of USENIX and SAGE board members in in mid-June 1994. From sage-members-owner Tue May 24 18:39:19 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA24319; Tue, 24 May 94 18:39:19 PDT Received: from oak.zilker.net by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA24312; Tue, 24 May 94 18:39:08 PDT Received: by oak.zilker.net (8.6.8.1/zilker.1.28) id UAA06895; Tue, 24 May 1994 20:39:12 -0500 Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 20:39:12 -0500 From: dinah@zilker.net (Dinah McNutt) Message-Id: <199405250139.UAA06895@oak.zilker.net> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: LISA CFP: Friday last day! Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Turns out a number of people thought the deadline for LISA papers was this Friday. Therefore, I am extending the deadline until Friday. So, if you planned to do a paper, but thought you had missed the deadline, you have another chance. Here's the call: ANNOUNCEMENT & CALL FOR PARTICIPATION 8th USENIX SYSTEMS ADMINISTRATION CONFERENCE (LISA VIII) September 19-23, 1994 Town and Country Hotel San Diego, California Co-sponsored by USENIX, the UNIX and Advanced Computing Systems Professional and Technical Association, and SAGE, the System Administrators Guild IMPORTANT DATES Refereed Paper Submissions: Extended Abstract Submission Deadline: May 23, 1994 Notification to Authors: June 24, 1994 Final Papers Receipt Deadline: August 1, 1994 Registration Materials Available: July, 1994 The annual USENIX Systems Administration Conference provides a forum in which system administrators meet to share ideas and experiences. A growing success for the previous seven years, the USENIX Systems Administration Conference is the only conference which focuses specifically on the needs of system administrators. Its scope includes system administrators from sites of all sizes and configurations. "Automation: Managing the Computer of the 90's" is the theme of this year's conference. The conference will focus on tools to help system administrators automate administration tasks and troubleshoot problems. TUTORIAL PROGRAM Monday and Tuesday, September 19-20, 1994 The two-day tutorial program at the conference offers multiple tracks, with a total of as many as twelve half-day tutorials. Attendees may move between tracks, choosing the sections of most interest to them. Tutorials offer expert instruction in areas of interest to system administrators, novice through experienced. Topics are expected to include Networking, Advanced System Administration Tools, Solaris & BSD Administration, Perl Programming, System Security, and more. TECHNICAL SESSIONS Wednesday through Friday, September 21-23, 1994 The three days of technical sessions program will include refereed paper presentations, invited talks, panels, Works-In-Progress (WIP) reports, and Birds-Of-a-Feather (BOF) sessions. The first track is dedicated to presentations of referred technical papers. Although papers of a traditional technical content are very welcome, the Program Committee is especially seeking papers on areas such as useful tools or solutions to system administration problems. Papers which are tutorial in nature would also be appropriate. The second track of the Technical Sessions will offer invited talks, panels, mini-workshops, and similar presentations, and we seek proposals for these presentation formats as well. Conference Proceedings, containing all refereed papers and materials from invited talks and workshops, will be distributed to conference attendees. The Conference Proceedings will also be available from the USENIX Association following the conference. VENDOR DISPLAY Wednesday, September 21, 1994, 3:00 pm. - 9:00 pm Well informed vendor representatives will demonstrate products and services useful to systems and network administration at the informal table-top display accompanying the USENIX Systems Administration Conference. If your company would like to participate, please contact Peter Mui at 510-528-8649; FAX 510-548-8649; E-mail: pmui@usenix.org CONFERENCE TOPICS The Program Committee invites you to submit to the refereed paper track of the techical sessions, as well as to submit informal proposals, ideas, or suggestions for the various presentation formats of the second track, on any of the following or related topics: % Automating Administration Tasks % Distributed System Administration % Problem Tracking % Predicting problems before they happen % System Administration standards % Differences in OSF, Solaris, and ? % Case studies - "This is the problem we solved and how we solved it." % Career paths for system administrators ("Is there life after support?") % Applications using emerging technology (C++, AI, etc.) % Performance Monitoring % Hardware-related topics: all about memory, installing disk drives % Tools - Useful programs or solutions you have developed and wish to share PROGRAM COMMITTEE Program Chair: Dinah McNutt, Zilker Internet Park Tom Christiansen, Consultant Trent Hein, XOR Network Engineering William (Bill) LeFebvre, Northwestern University Pat Parseghian, AT&T Bell Laboratories Hal Stern, Sun Microsystems Jeff Tate, Bank of America Neil Todd, Swiss Bank Corportation Mark Verber, Xerox PARC DATES FOR REFEREED PAPER SUBMISSIONS Extended Abstract Submission Deadline: May 23, 1994 Notification to Authors: June 24, 1994 Final Papers Receipt Deadline: August 1, 1994 REFEREED PAPER SUBMISSIONS We strongly urge you to request a sample extended abstract by sending e-mail to sample-abstract@usenix.org or telephoning +1 (510) 528-8649. The Program Committee requires that an extended abstract be submitted for the paper selection process. (Full-papers are not acceptable for this stage; if you send a full paper, you must also include an extended abstract for evaluation.) Your extended abstract should consist of a traditional abstract which summarizes the content/ideas of the entire paper, followed by a skeletal outline of the full paper. Submissions will be judged on the following criteria: relevancy of topic, quality of work, and quality of the written submission. Authors of an accepted paper will present their paper at the conference and provide a final paper for publication in the Conference Proceedings. Final papers are limited to 20 pages, including diagrams, figures and appendix and must be in troff or ASCII format. We will supply you with instructions and troff macros. Papers should include a brief description of the site (if applicable). Note that the USENIX conference, like most conferences and journals, requires that papers not be submitted simultaneously to more than one conference or publication and that submitted papers not be previously or subsequently published elsewhere. Papers accompanied by so-called "non-disclosure agreement" forms are not acceptable and will be returned to the author(s) unread. All submissions are held in the highest confident prior to publication in the conference proceedings, both as a matter of policy and as protected by the U.S. Copyright Act of 1976 (Title 17, U.S. Code, Section 102). WHERE TO SEND SUBMISSIONS For submission to the refereed paper track, please send submissions by at least two of the following methods: % (Preferred method) electronic (nroff/troff or ASCII) submission of the extended abstract; e-mail to: dinah@usenix.org % FAX to the USENIX Association +1 (510) 548-5738 % Mail to: LISA 8 Conference, USENIX Association, 2560 Ninth St., Suite 215, Berkeley, CA USA 94710 For submission of all proposals other than extended abstracts of refereed papers, and for inquiries regarding the content of the conference program, contact the Program Chair: Dinah McNutt, Route 1 Box 444, Leander, TX USA 78641, +1 (512) 267-9381, E-mail: dinah@usenix.org. FOR REGISTRATION INFORMATION Materials containing all details of the symposium program, symposium registration fees and forms, and hotel discount and reservation information will be mailed and posted to the net beginning July 1994. If you wish to receive registration materials, please contact: USENIX Conference Office 22672 Lambert Street, Suite 613 Lake Forest, CA USA 92630 +1 (714) 588-8649; FAX: +1 (714) 588-9706 E-mail: conference@usenix.org From sage-members-owner Mon Jun 6 14:46:40 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA10586; Mon, 6 Jun 94 14:46:40 PDT Received: from rigel.dartmouth.edu by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA10579; Mon, 6 Jun 94 14:46:38 PDT Received: from localhost by rigel.dartmouth.edu (5.65D1/4.2) id AA08801; Mon, 6 Jun 94 17:46:45 EDT Message-Id: <9406062146.AA08801@rigel.dartmouth.edu> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: *STRAW POLL* - LISA and location... Date: Mon, 06 Jun 94 17:46:43 EDT From: Pat Wilson Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk The SAGE Board will be discussing issues related to the LISA conference (including location) in the next several months, and we'd appreciate your input on the following questions: 1) Do you attend LISA or plan to in the next two years? __ yes __no 2) What factor is/would be *the most important* in your decision to attend LISA? __ technical program __ tutorial offerings __ invited talks/other track at meeting __ meet other sysadmins __ location of conference __ cost of hotel __ other (please specify) 3) How does location of the conference affect your decision? __ more likely to go to West Coast LISA __ more likely to go to East Coast LISA __ more likely to go to mid-West LISA (e.g. Chicago) __ really don't care at all 4) Is cost of the rooms at conference hotels an issue for you? __ yes, but I'll find a way __ yes, it prevents me from attending __ no (but cheaper is better) __ I never notice 5) Is any particular time between late September and early November (historically, the range of LISA dates) consistently bad for you? Thanks! We'll have other questions as time goes on... Please do respond to the survey - every opinion point counts! Send responses to paw@usenix.org (and I apologive in advance for any vacation message you might see - I'm off to Usenix tomorrow). Pat Wilson Member, SAGE Board of Directors paw@usenix.org From sage-members-owner Mon Jun 6 16:48:41 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA13077; Mon, 6 Jun 94 16:48:41 PDT Received: from ataraxia.EECS.Berkeley.EDU by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA13070; Mon, 6 Jun 94 16:48:36 PDT Received: (robm@localhost) by ataraxia.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.8/8.6.4) id QAA12670; Mon, 6 Jun 1994 16:48:42 -0700 Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 16:48:42 -0700 From: Rob McNicholas Message-Id: <199406062348.QAA12670@ataraxia.EECS.Berkeley.EDU> To: Pat Wilson Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: *STRAW POLL* - LISA and location... In-Reply-To: Pat Wilson's message of Mon, 6-Jun-19 17:46:43 EDT <9406062146.AA08801@rigel.dartmouth.edu> References: <9406062146.AA08801@rigel.dartmouth.edu> Reply-To: Rob McNicholas X-Sunrise-Sunset: Sunrise 5:47am (PDT), sunset 8:29pm (PDT) at 37.9N, 122.3W Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk > 1) Do you attend LISA or plan to in the next two years? __ yes > 2) What factor is/would be *the most important* in your decision to attend LISA? > __ location of conference > 3) How does location of the conference affect your decision? > __ more likely to go to West Coast LISA > 4) Is cost of the rooms at conference hotels an issue for you? > __ yes, but I'll find a way > 5) Is any particular time between late September and early November > (historically, the range of LISA dates) consistently bad for you? Nope. > Thanks! You're welcome. A suggestion: You might want to set the "Reply-To" header on any future messages to make it easier for people to respond to the correct account. -Rob From sage-members-owner Mon Jun 6 17:44:32 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA14085; Mon, 6 Jun 94 17:44:32 PDT Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA14078; Mon, 6 Jun 94 17:44:30 PDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.0-proxy) id AA14939; Mon, 6 Jun 94 19:44:39 CDT Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 19:44:39 CDT From: bonomi@delta.eecs.nwu.edu (Robert Bonomi) Message-Id: <9406070044.AA14939@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: paw@rigel.dartmouth.edu, sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: *STRAW POLL* - LISA and location... Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk + To: sage-members@usenix.org + Subject: *STRAW POLL* - LISA and location... + Date: Mon, 06 Jun 94 17:46:43 EDT + From: Pat Wilson + The SAGE Board will be discussing issues related to the LISA conference (including + location) in the next several months, and we'd appreciate your input on the + following questions: + 1) Do you attend LISA or plan to in the next two years? _X yes __no + 2) What factor is/would be *the most important* in your decision to attend LISA? + X_ technical program + __ tutorial offerings + __ invited talks/other track at meeting + __ meet other sysadmins + __ location of conference + __ cost of hotel + __ other (please specify) + 3) How does location of the conference affect your decision? + __ more likely to go to West Coast LISA + __ more likely to go to East Coast LISA + X_ more likely to go to mid-West LISA (e.g. Chicago) + __ really don't care at all Chicago-area attendance guaranteed (thats *home* :), elsewhere is -probable- + 4) Is cost of the rooms at conference hotels an issue for you? + __ yes, but I'll find a way + __ yes, it prevents me from attending + __ no (but cheaper is better) + __ I never notice Is significant consideration. Self-employed, its *all* directly out of _my_ pocket. + 5) Is any particular time between late September and early November + (historically, the range of LISA dates) consistently bad for you? + Thanks! We'll have other questions as time goes on... Please do respond + to the survey - every opinion point counts! Send responses to + paw@usenix.org (and I apologive in advance for any vacation message you + might see - I'm off to Usenix tomorrow). + Pat Wilson + Member, SAGE Board of Directors + paw@usenix.org From sage-members-owner Tue Jun 7 08:36:31 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA21977; Tue, 7 Jun 94 08:36:31 PDT Received: from mwunix.mitre.org by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA21970; Tue, 7 Jun 94 08:36:29 PDT Received: from fluky.mitre.org (fluky.mitre.org [128.29.113.24]) by mwunix.mitre.org (8.6.4/8.6.4) with SMTP id LAA29719; Tue, 7 Jun 1994 11:36:37 -0400 Received: from krishna.mitre.org by fluky.mitre.org (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA12343; Tue, 7 Jun 94 11:35:50 EDT Received: from fluky by krishna.mitre.org (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18941; Tue, 7 Jun 94 11:36:37 EDT Message-Id: <9406071536.AA18941@krishna.mitre.org> To: Pat Wilson Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG, greg@fluky.mitre.org Subject: Re: *STRAW POLL* - LISA and location... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 06 Jun 1994 17:46:43 EDT." <9406062146.AA08801@rigel.dartmouth.edu> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 1994 11:36:37 -0400 From: Unix Systems Catherd Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk >The SAGE Board will be discussing issues related to the LISA conference (including >location) in the next several months, and we'd appreciate your input on the >following questions: > Okey-doke. :) >1) Do you attend LISA or plan to in the next two years? _X_ yes __no > >2) What factor is/would be *the most important* in your decision to attend LISA? > __ technical program > __ tutorial offerings > __ invited talks/other track at meeting > __ meet other sysadmins > _X_ location of conference (*see note at bottom*) > __ cost of hotel > __ other (please specify) > >3) How does location of the conference affect your decision? > __ more likely to go to West Coast LISA > _X_ more likely to go to East Coast LISA > __ more likely to go to mid-West LISA (e.g. Chicago) > __ really don't care at all > >4) Is cost of the rooms at conference hotels an issue for you? > _X_ yes, but I'll find a way > __ yes, it prevents me from attending > __ no (but cheaper is better) > __ I never notice > >5) Is any particular time between late September and early November > (historically, the range of LISA dates) consistently bad for you? > October 16 and 17 are _bad_ for me. I have a child's birthday on each day. :) * I do request that we _try_ to schedule LISA further east than the west slopes of the Rocky Mt. escarpment for a few years. :) Those of us who work out here on the East Coast and are dependent on parsimonious management for USENIX attendance just aren't going to make it to LISA very often. For me, attendance at LISA or USENIX is a given; I will come regardless of the program. For my management, co$t i$ everything - especially since we ssystems people are support, hence overhead, and therefore not any more important to the success of the company than janitors. And we just laid off all our janitors. Bitter? Yep, I'm a little bitter. Of course, if they paid me better, I'd attend LISA on my own dime. Then I'd probably not care. I'd still want to see other parts of the US than California, though. Greg Koolbeck "You answer the SAGE survey, Joel. I'm bitter." > >Thanks! We'll have other questions as time goes on... Please do respond >to the survey - every opinion point counts! Send responses to >paw@usenix.org (and I apologive in advance for any vacation message you >might see - I'm off to Usenix tomorrow). > :P Since I got to go to USENIX in January, I can't go to the closer one this summer. Wheee. >Pat Wilson >Member, SAGE Board of Directors >paw@usenix.org I'll do my best to answer them. Greg Disclaimer: MITER shares none of my opinions. I'm not important enough to speak for it. In fact, MITRE never has opinions. "Sehet - Wen? - den Braeutigam. Seht ihn - Wie? - als wie ein Lamm!" J.S. Bach, _MattaeusPassion_ (BWV 244, erster teil) From sage-members-owner Thu Jun 23 15:24:28 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA22234; Thu, 23 Jun 94 15:24:28 PDT Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA22113; Thu, 23 Jun 94 15:01:23 PDT Received: from gaea.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA04007 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 23 Jun 1994 15:01:33 -0700 Received: from phakt.synopsys.com by gaea.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA27063 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 23 Jun 1994 15:01:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199406232201.AA27063@gaea.synopsys.com> To: sage-announce@usenix.ORG, sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Call for Suggestions for SAGE Lifetime Acheivement Award Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 15:01:31 -0700 From: ple@Synopsys.COM Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk SAGE is soliciting nominations for its second annual (?) Lifetime Achievement Award, to be presented this September in San Diego at the USENIX/SAGE LISA 8 Conference. The SAGE board has set up a special committee to select this year's recipient, and we're inviting your suggestions. The award will go to someone whose contributions, either technical or professional, to the system administration community over a number of years merit special recognition. The first recipients of the award (in 1993) were Max Vasilatos and Rob Kolstad, for their role in organizing the early LISA conferences, and general contributions to the system administration community. The awards committee would like to keep the selection process informal; there isn't a formal nominating procedure, and we will consider all suggestions submitted. So please send in suggestions for people whose accomplishments you believe deserve the recognition of a SAGE Lifetime Achievement Award to sage-award@usenix.org. From sage-members-owner Thu Jun 23 15:39:32 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA22322; Thu, 23 Jun 94 15:39:32 PDT Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA22213; Thu, 23 Jun 94 15:24:01 PDT Received: from gaea.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA04568 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 23 Jun 1994 15:24:11 -0700 Received: from phakt.synopsys.com by gaea.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA27976 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 23 Jun 1994 15:24:09 -0700 Message-Id: <199406232224.AA27976@gaea.synopsys.com> To: sage-announce@usenix.ORG, sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Call for Suggestions for SAGE Lifetime Acheivement Award Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 15:24:08 -0700 From: ple@Synopsys.COM Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk SAGE is soliciting nominations for its second annual (?) Lifetime Achievement Award, to be presented this September in San Diego at the USENIX/SAGE LISA 8 Conference. The SAGE board has set up a special committee to select this year's recipient, and we're inviting your suggestions. The award will go to someone whose contributions, either technical or professional, to the system administration community over a number of years merit special recognition. The first recipients of the award (in 1993) were Max Vasilatos and Rob Kolstad, for their role in organizing the early LISA conferences, and general contributions to the system administration community. The awards committee would like to keep the selection process informal; there isn't a formal nominating procedure, and we will consider all suggestions submitted. So please send in suggestions for people whose accomplishments you believe deserve the recognition of a SAGE Lifetime Achievement Award to sage-award@usenix.org. Paul Evans SAGE Secretary From sage-members-owner Thu Jul 14 10:45:46 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA05163; Thu, 14 Jul 94 10:45:46 PDT Received: from uintah.cs.utah.edu by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA05155; Thu, 14 Jul 94 10:45:41 PDT Received: by uintah.cs.utah.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA12935; Thu, 14 Jul 1994 11:45:49 -0600 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 11:45:49 -0600 From: reading@uintah.cs.utah.edu (Dan Reading) Message-Id: <9407141745.AA12935@uintah.cs.utah.edu> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Cc: reading@cs.utah.edu Subject: Old survey on ratio of staff to users Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Sometime ago SAGE or USENIX (or someone in this context) conducted a survey about the ratio of support staff to number of users at a site. All I remember about the results where that they where inconclusive. Still I would to show the results to someone and can't find the copy which I thought I keep. If someone remembers this survey and can mail me the results I would appreciate it. thanks in advance, Dan R. reading@cs.utah.edu From sage-members-owner Thu Jul 14 10:56:03 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA05352; Thu, 14 Jul 94 10:56:03 PDT Received: from mobil.com (mailgate.mobil.com) by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA05343; Thu, 14 Jul 94 10:55:54 PDT Received: from dal.mobil.com by mobil.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07067; Thu, 14 Jul 94 12:52:10 CDT Received: from dalsb3.dal.mobil.com.mp by dal.mobil.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-R) id AA23206; Thu, 14 Jul 94 12:59:51 CDT Received: by dalsb3.dal.mobil.com.mp (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28290; Thu, 14 Jul 94 12:55:24 CDT Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 12:55:24 CDT From: jemartin@dal.mobil.com (J.E. Martinez [Jose]) Message-Id: <9407141755.AA28290@dalsb3.dal.mobil.com.mp> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Cost Comparisons: Centralized Data Storage -vs- Local Cc: jemartin@dal.mobil.com Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk We have recently begun using our mass storage platform for near- line storage of workstation and server data. Our users are balking at the charges incurred because, they say, they can purchase new disks at a fraction of what we are asking for our services. I have been asked to help develop a cost comparison in terms of $$/Mb between server disk storage and high density tape storage from the user perspective. If services are provided from a centralized entity (i.e., our organization), their charges represent this cost. If services are obtained locally, all costs such as hardware, support, maintenance, and backup should be included. Specifically, I'd like to compare between a centralized mass storage facility vs. disk the users claim they can buy for their server and store their own data for less cost per Mb. Since charge rates for disk usually include a time factor (i.e., $$/Mb/day), how can data storage rates between disk and tape (infinite time storage) be fairly compared?? I'm curious as to whether or not anybody else has done anything similar. Also, what factors should we consider that I may have overlooked. I would appreciate any input you may provide, Jose' Martinez | jemartin@dal.mobil.com | J.E. Martinez, Sr. Comp Sup Tech | MEPTEC IT/CS&S, Dallas TX | (214) 951-3514 | FAX (214) 951-3529 From sage-members-owner Thu Jul 14 13:01:38 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA06944; Thu, 14 Jul 94 13:01:38 PDT Received: from Kodak.COM by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA06937; Thu, 14 Jul 94 13:01:27 PDT Received: from bisco.kodak.com by Kodak.COM (5.61+/2.1-Eastman Kodak) id AA13690; Thu, 14 Jul 94 16:05:42 -0400 Reply-To: gobeyn@Kodak.COM Received: from monolith.bisco.kodak.COM by bisco.kodak.COM (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA00267; Thu, 14 Jul 94 15:58:23 EDT Received: from quasar.komstar by monolith.bisco.kodak.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11211; Thu, 14 Jul 94 15:57:44 EDT Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 15:57:44 EDT From: gobeyn@Kodak.COM (Rene Gobeyn) Message-Id: <9407141957.AA11211@monolith.bisco.kodak.COM> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: Cost Comparisons: Centralized Data Storage -vs- Local Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Jose' We did a study similar to what you are asking here about two years ago. As the cost/mb. of storage has dropped the actual numbers would not be useful to you. However, some of the factors that your users are not taking into consideration when they look at the cost of the disks are: 1) maint. costs 2) admis. costs 3) file sharing 4) backups In the study that we did, it was the aditional costs that I mentioned above that swung the cost/mb over to the central storage. We ended up buying an Auspex (a more expesive solution) because of the extra security provided by the RAID arch. Rene' Gobeyn Eastman Kodak Rochester NY From sage-members-owner Thu Jul 14 14:18:21 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA07582; Thu, 14 Jul 94 14:18:21 PDT Received: from research.att.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA07575; Thu, 14 Jul 94 14:18:12 PDT Received: by research.att.com; Thu Jul 14 17:12 EDT 1994 Received: from peerless.hoh.att.com by big.info.att.com; id AA11725; Thu, 14 Jul 94 17:12:46 EDT Posted-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 17:11:54 -0400 Received: by peerless.hoh.att.com (4.1/4.7) id AA05028; Thu, 14 Jul 94 17:11:54 EDT Message-Id: <9407142111.AA05028@peerless.hoh.att.com> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: Old survey on ratio of staff to users In-Reply-To: Message from reading@uintah.cs.utah.edu (Dan Reading) of Thu, 14 Jul 94 11:45:49 MDT <9407141745.AA12935@uintah.cs.utah.edu> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 17:11:54 -0400 From: Tom Reingold Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Sometime ago SAGE or USENIX (or someone in this context) conducted a > survey about the ratio of support staff to number of users at a site. > All I remember about the results where that they where inconclusive. > Still I would to show the results to someone and can't find the copy > which I thought I keep. If someone remembers this survey and can > mail me the results I would appreciate it. > > thanks in advance, > Dan R. > reading@cs.utah.edu > > I don't have the discussion on file but I think that number of support staff to number of systems may be more meaningful. You'd have to weight the numbers to denote the sizes of the various systems. Tom Reingold AT&T Bell Labs, Crawford Hill Laboratory, Holmdel, NJ, USA tommy@big.att.com or att!big!tommy From sage-members-owner Thu Jul 14 15:18:41 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA08591; Thu, 14 Jul 94 15:18:41 PDT Received: from fish-license.ifs.umich.edu by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA08584; Thu, 14 Jul 94 15:18:38 PDT Received: from ex-parrot.ifs.umich.edu by fish-license.ifs.umich.edu (AIX 3.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA08954; Thu, 14 Jul 1994 18:17:03 -0400 Message-Id: <9407142217.AA08954@fish-license.ifs.umich.edu> From: Bill Doster To: gobeyn@kodak.com Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: Cost Comparisons: Centralized Data Storage -vs- Local In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 14 Jul 94 15:57:44 -0400. <9407141957.AA11211@monolith.bisco.kodak.COM> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 18:17:02 -0400 Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk We also were involved in such a study here although the centrally provided filespace was on a mainframe server. Actually, it was less of a study and more of an attempt (ultimately successful) to actually provide re-charged central storage. While you are correct that people putting forward the lower cost of local solutions often don't include things like maint and the like, we also found that *tangible* costs often weren't the only things driving decisions. Other factors were how quickly new storage could be made available by the local admin to the end-user, how quickly new technology could be introduced, the ability to integrate with other possibly local technologies, and the cost to the local organization of centrally decided up and down times, and perhaps most importantly the total dependence on the network between local workstation and remote fileserver. Failures and inflexibilities in these areas had a very real impact on the local departments -- slow-turnaround, increased administrative overhead, poorer integration with other parts of their local environment, inability to easily put off an upgrade during local midnight-oil sessions... Perhaps hard to quantify with a cost, but important considerations nonetheless. Until we took into account the less tangible costs, we felt that our potential customers were ignoring the obvious cost savings they could be realizing. After taking the intangible costs into account, we realized that there was a need for further dialogue to address those valid concerns The results have become less clear cut, but now we have more real customers and have also improved the service we are delivering. After spending several years involved in exploring different costing, pricing and funding models in a re-charge environmen, I have come to feel that the process of identifying which costs to count is the most important part of the process. Unless all parties have an agreement that these represent the impact (cost) on (to) them, they are unlikely to be moved by the numbers that come out. Garbage in, garbage out. For what it's worth, Bill Doster Project Lead for Accounting & Billing System (ABS) Project Lead for Identification, Authentication, Authorization (IAA) Information Technology Division University of Michigan From sage-members-owner Thu Jul 14 16:57:12 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA09552; Thu, 14 Jul 94 16:57:12 PDT Received: from pnl.gov (gate.pnl.gov) by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA09545; Thu, 14 Jul 94 16:57:08 PDT Received: from maddog.pnl.gov. (maddog.pnl.gov) by pnl.gov (PMDF V4.2-15 #4032) id <01HEPCC7PTHS007780@pnl.gov>; Thu, 14 Jul 1994 16:53:46 PDT Received: by maddog.pnl.gov. (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28921; Thu, 14 Jul 94 16:56:49 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 16:56:49 -0700 From: Jim Schroeder Subject: Re: Old survey on ratio of staff to users To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Reply-To: jo_schroeder@pnl.gov Message-Id: <9407142356.AA28921@maddog.pnl.gov.> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Sometime ago SAGE or USENIX (or someone in this context) conducted a > survey about the ratio of support staff to number of users at a site. > All I remember about the results where that they where inconclusive. > Still I would to show the results to someone and can't find the copy > which I thought I keep. If someone remembers this survey and can > mail me the results I would appreciate it. > > thanks in advance, > Dan R. > reading@cs.utah.edu > There is an interesting (old) article regarding this subject in the IBM Systems Journal, Vol 31, No 3, 1992 titled "Project Athena: Supporting distributed computing at MIT". The authors present a model for determining the number of system administrators needed based on the number of workstations, users, applications, licenses, etc. The framework of the model can be adapted to fit specific situations (with unknown accuracy). ===================================================================== Jim Schroeder Battelle, Pacific Northwest Laboratories jo_schroeder@pnl.gov M/S K1-87 509-375-2855 (W) P.O. Box 999 509-375-6631 (F) Richland, WA 99352 ===================================================================== From sage-members-owner Fri Jul 15 09:57:21 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA16826; Fri, 15 Jul 94 09:57:21 PDT Received: from sgigate.sgi.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA16819; Fri, 15 Jul 94 09:57:14 PDT Received: from relay.sgi.com (relay.sgi.com [192.26.51.36]) by sgigate.sgi.com (940519.SGI.8.6.9/8.6.4) with SMTP id JAA17943; Fri, 15 Jul 1994 09:57:21 -0700 Received: from pterodactyl.corp.sgi.com by relay.sgi.com via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @sgigate.sgi.com:sage-members@usenix.org id AA15869; Fri, 15 Jul 94 09:57:18 -0700 Received: by pterodactyl.corp.sgi.com (931110.SGI/911001.SGI) for @sgi.com:sage-members@usenix.org id AA17642; Fri, 15 Jul 94 09:57:16 -0700 From: "Elizabeth D. Zwicky" Message-Id: <9407150957.ZM17640@pterodactyl.corp.sgi.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 09:57:15 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.0S.1026 26oct93 MediaMail) To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: (Fwd) Re: Workstation / Administrator Ratio Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk The survey that Dan was thinking of is Rob Kolstad's survey; I believe the most recent survey is covered in the most recent ;login:, and there should be numbers from the previous one in ;login: a year or so ago. Below is the mail I sent to sage-managers when this topic came up recently. Someone should write up a FAQ about this (in HTML, so we can put it in the SAGE web). --- Forwarded mail from ("Elizabeth D. Zwicky") To: sage-managers@usenix.org There's an article which Mark Verber wrote which was published in UNIX Review some years ago on this topic. Basically, the right answer is that there is no one ideal ratio. For one thing, should it be a ratio between workstations and administrators, or a ratio between users and workstations? (When I left Ohio State for SRI, each site had roughly 200 workstations, but the user to workstation ratios were 8:1 and 1:1.5 respectively, and yes, I do really mean that SRI has more workstations than users.) Next, what counts as an admin? (Counting admin to workstation ratios using full-time software staff only, OSU was about 1:30 and SRI was about 1:40, for admin to user ratios of about 1:240 and about 1:27, except that if you count in student staff, in full time equivalents, not bodies, OSU dropped to about 1:90.) Even assuming that you want to count, say, full-time-equivalent admins of any sort to full-time-equivalent users (and coming up with that last number should be good for a few laughs, particularly in a university environment), you have to worry about what level of support you want to provide, and how many hardware types/operating systems/programs you are providing it for, and how demanding the environment is (for instance, a site with no external connections doesn't have the security concerns that an Internet-connected site does). The real question is "Can the people you have provide the support you want and need?" and there's no easy answer to it. Elizabeth --- End of forwarded mail from ("Elizabeth D. Zwicky") From sage-members-owner Fri Jul 15 15:15:06 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA19969; Fri, 15 Jul 94 15:15:06 PDT Received: from fivespot.engin.umich.edu by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA19960; Fri, 15 Jul 94 15:15:03 PDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fivespot.engin.umich.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with ESMTP id SAA22187; Fri, 15 Jul 1994 18:15:04 -0400 Message-Id: <199407152215.SAA22187@fivespot.engin.umich.edu> To: jemartin@dal.mobil.com (J.E. Martinez [Jose]) Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: Cost Comparisons: Centralized Data Storage -vs- Local In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 14 Jul 1994 12:55:24 CDT." <9407141755.AA28290@dalsb3.dal.mobil.com.mp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Id: <22184.774310503.1@fivespot.engin.umich.edu> Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 18:15:03 -0400 From: paul killey Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Our users are balking at the charges incurred because, they say, they can purchase new disks at a fraction of what we are asking for our services. well, sure. because they can. but you are comparing apples and oranges: users are pricing and buying raw disk, and you're pricing and selling services. people who provide services based on expensive mainframe hardware when end-users can buy cheap desktop hardware are especially high. time sharing services like the big one that is dying on this campus screw up because they charge for "disk" and not "something else", whatever something else is ... backups, maintenance, testing and evaluation, supply and demand imbalance, arbitrary internal cost accounting and recharge policies, etc. The wily user sees "disk" on his or her bill, and says "hey, i can buy a disk cheaper than that." here is our perspective: if we feel it costs $X to cover disk drive installation, then we charge $X for that, and it is identified as such. if we feel that it costs $Y for backups, then we charge that much for people who choose to buy backups from us (some indeed buy their own tape drives). We sell chunks of AFS space for a very straightforward and verifiable cost of hardware plus an explicit annual maintenance charge. Here, people either add drives to their own Unix machine, buy a Novell server, or buy space from us. Or put a bigger drive on their Mac that their department (maybe) backs up. (Here is the U of Mich College of Engineering) We are not really a re-charge shop though, the same way traditional data centers, etc. are. I also agree with the points Bill Doster made in his response. --paul Paul Killey Deputy Director Computer Aided Engineering Network 251 Chrysler Center Ann Arbor MI 48109-2092 (313) 763-4910 (voice) (313) 936-3107 (fax) paul@engin.umich.edu From sage-members-owner Tue Aug 9 15:48:59 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA24963; Tue, 9 Aug 94 15:48:59 PDT Received: from rigel.dartmouth.edu by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA24955; Tue, 9 Aug 94 15:48:54 PDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rigel.dartmouth.edu (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA183247; Tue, 9 Aug 1994 18:48:59 -0400 Message-Id: <199408092248.SAA183247@rigel.dartmouth.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: rigel.dartmouth.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: sage-active@usenix.ORG, sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: LISA VIII attendees - ;login: needs *you*! Date: Tue, 09 Aug 94 18:48:57 EDT From: Pat Wilson Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk [ From Rob Kolstad. Please help if you can... ] ------- Begin Forwarded Message Subject: LISA VIII Writeups for login Would you like to write up a session or two of the LISA conference for login? I'm looking for short (and I do mean *BRIEF*) descriptions of the high points of each speaker's session (including invited talks and BOFs). Please drop me a line if interested and we'll work out assignments. RK ==================================================================== /\ Rob Kolstad Berkeley Software Design, Inc. /\/ \ kolstad@bsdi.com 7759 Delmonico Drive / \ \ 719-593-9445 Colorado Springs, CO 80919 ==================================================================== ------- End of Forwarded Message From sage-members-owner Wed Aug 10 11:02:19 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA03568; Wed, 10 Aug 94 11:02:19 PDT Received: from research.att.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA03561; Wed, 10 Aug 94 11:02:16 PDT Received: by research.att.com; Wed Aug 10 13:54 EDT 1994 Received: from quarto.UUCP by big.info.att.com; id AA05034; Wed, 10 Aug 94 13:54:22 EDT Posted-Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 13:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <9408101754.AA05034@big.info.att.com> Received: by quarto.UUCP (4.1/4.7) id AA14102; Wed, 10 Aug 94 13:54:20 EDT From: tal@big.att.com (Tom Limoncelli) Subject: User Survey To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 13:54:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 252 Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk I'm trying to develop a survey to send out to my users that will determine what the users are/aren't happy about, what their needs are, etc. Does anyone have a sample survey that they use that they can pass on? Thanks, Tom Limoncelli tal@big.att.com From sage-members-owner Wed Aug 10 15:38:38 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA04954; Wed, 10 Aug 94 15:38:38 PDT Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uucp5.netcom.com) by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA04947; Wed, 10 Aug 94 15:38:22 PDT Received: from costamesa.esm.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.4/SMI-4.1) id PAA04147; Wed, 10 Aug 1994 15:34:42 -0700 Received: from esm.esm.com by esm.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB10211; Wed, 10 Aug 94 15:21:29 PDT Message-Id: <9408102221.AB10211@esm.com> X-Sender: escott@costamesa.esm.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 15:20:24 -0800 To: sage-members@usenix.ORG From: escott@esm.com (E. Scott Menter) Subject: Re: User Survey Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk At 1:54 PM 8/10/94 -0400, Tom Limoncelli wrote: >I'm trying to develop a survey to send out to my >users that will determine what the users are/aren't >happy about, what their needs are, etc. > >Does anyone have a sample survey that they use that they >can pass on? > >Thanks, >Tom Limoncelli >tal@big.att.com Anybody interested in this will definitely want to talk to Carol Kubicki , who did some really terrific work on this subject and presented it to LISA a couple of years ago. Scott +------------------------------------- E. Scott Menter, President escott@esm.com Enterprise Systems Management Corporation 2522 Chambers Road, Suite 110 +1-714-573-4075 Tustin, California 92680 +1-714-573-4076 FAX Visualize Whirled Peas From sage-members-owner Thu Aug 11 16:06:14 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA15942; Thu, 11 Aug 94 16:06:14 PDT Received: from hplms26.hpl.hp.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA15935; Thu, 11 Aug 94 16:06:12 PDT Received: from cat.hpl.hp.com by hplms26.hpl.hp.com with SMTP (1.36.108.4/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1S) id AA15190; Thu, 11 Aug 1994 16:06:20 -0700 Received: by cat.hpl.hp.com (1.37.109.8/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1) id AA15323; Thu, 11 Aug 1994 16:11:06 -0700 From: Laura Kirk de Leon Message-Id: <9408112311.AA15323@cat.hpl.hp.com> Subject: BayLISA meeting: The History of Unix To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 16:11:06 PDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk The BayLISA group meets monthly to discuss topics of interest for administration of sites with more than 100 users and/or computers. The meetings are free and open to the public. August 18th: Peter Salus: The History of UNIX In October 1973, Ken Thompson delivered the first paper on the UNIX operating system at SOSP. The next month the 4th Edition manual stated that there were now 30 installations. By June 1974, there were "over 50." In the July 1974 CACM the paper was published and the floodgates opened. How did this unsupported and unadvertised OS expand and develop? My reseach shows it was the users, forced into cooperation and development by AT&T's intransigence. Peter H. Salus is the Managing Editor of Computing Systems and the author of A Quarter Century of UNIX (Adison-Wesley). September 15th: Steve Romig, Ohio State University: ATM Deployment Starting this May and going through the rest of the summer, we plan on broadcasting our meetings via MBONE. For more information, please send email to: mbone@baylisa.org BayLISA holds monthly meetings on the third Thursday of each month at 7:30 PM (please do not arrive before 7:00). We meet at Synopsys Building C in Mountain View, California off Highway 237 at Middlefield. To get further information on the meeting location, you can request it from the majordomo server on baylisa.org, you can ftp it from ftp.baylisa.org:/BayLISA/location or you can query the BayLISA mail server by cutting and pasting the following line to your shell: echo "index baylisa" | mail majordomo@baylisa.org BayLISA makes video tapes of the meetings available to members. For more information on available videos, please send email to: video@baylisa.org For any other information, please send email to: info@baylisa.org If you have any questions, please contact me or the info alias listed above. From sage-members-owner Fri Aug 12 13:52:50 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA20541; Fri, 12 Aug 94 13:52:50 PDT Received: from houston.sgp.slb.com (ghds01.houston.sgp.slb.com) by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA20534; Fri, 12 Aug 94 13:52:45 PDT Received: from gehippgm02.houstondp (pgm02.houston.sgp.slb.com) by houston.sgp.slb.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05669; Fri, 12 Aug 94 15:50:07 CDT From: jwang@houston.sgp.slb.com (John I-Chung Wang) Message-Id: <9408122050.AA05669@houston.sgp.slb.com> Subject: How good will LISA VIII be? To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 15:48:27 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 768 Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Hello I have a tentative agreement with my boss to attend LISA VIII in San Diego provided that I first make certain that it won't be a waste of time. Does anyone have any opinions about these conferences? How are the tutorials structured? How useful has it been? or even stories of shear boredom would be welcomed. Regards, John -- John Wang GECO PRAKLA NSA Region jwang@houston.sgp.slb.com 1325 South Dairy Ashford jwang@ghds01.sinet.slb.com Houston, Texas wang@GECOUS.sinet.slb.com 77077 ghds01::jwang office (713) 596-1516 GECOUS::WANG fax (713) 870-8135 From sage-members-owner Fri Aug 12 14:00:43 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA20611; Fri, 12 Aug 94 14:00:43 PDT Received: from research.att.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA20604; Fri, 12 Aug 94 14:00:38 PDT Received: by research.att.com; Fri Aug 12 16:53 EDT 1994 Received: from quarto.UUCP by big.info.att.com; id AA29534; Fri, 12 Aug 94 16:53:02 EDT Posted-Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 16:53:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <9408122053.AA29534@big.info.att.com> Received: by quarto.UUCP (4.1/4.7) id AA08954; Fri, 12 Aug 94 16:53:02 EDT From: tal@big.att.com (Tom Limoncelli) Subject: Re: User Survey (SUMMARY) To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 16:53:00 -0400 (EDT) Cc: sblair@upurbmw.us.dell.com, allen@ibmoto.com, bogstad@blaze.cs.jhu.edu, curnutt@Stoner.COM, dparter@cs.wisc.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 11844 Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Thanks for all the responses! Here is what I received. It's <8K so I thought I'd send it to the whole mailing list. Here are 3 responses. Another one is being sent to me via physical mail, so I can't forward that one as easily. Thanks to all that responded! --tal From: "Paul M. Moriarty" Message-Id: <199408101846.LAA00609@moriarty-ss2.cisco.com> Subject: Re: User Survey Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 11:46:18 -0700 (PDT) Tom Limoncelli writes: > > I'm trying to develop a survey to send out to my > users that will determine what the users are/aren't > happy about, what their needs are, etc. > > Does anyone have a sample survey that they use that they > can pass on? > Here's one I used a while back: A. Which best describes your title? --> _____ A - Director B - Manager C - Staff B. Which group do you work in? --> _____ A - Tom Daly B - Karen Miyahara C - Frank Marshall D - Sean Murphy E - Don Redmond F - Greg Satz G - Anthony Scampavia C. How long have you worked in the Engineering Department here at Cisco? --> _____ Please fill in the blanks below with the appropriate number: Very Somewhat In the Somewhat Very Not Dissatisfied Dissatisfied Middle Satisfied Satisfied Applicable 1 2 3 4 5 n/a SYSTEMS 1. System access and availability ___ 2. Network access and availability ___ 3. Performance and response time while using the systems ___ 4. Data integrity (e.g. lost files) ___ ECS STAFF 5. Ease of reaching knowledgeable personnel ___ 6. Technical skill level of the ECS personnel ___ 7. Courtesy of the ECS personnel ___ 8. Communication during problem resolution ___ 9. Timely resolution of problems ___ 10. Meeting committed project schedules ___ 11. Receptiveness of ECS personnel to input from user community --- GENERAL 12. Overall satisfaction with ECS group ___ What specific improvements would better meet your computing requirements? Do you have any other comments? Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 13:04:18 -0600 From: Sherwood Botsford Subject: Re: User Survey Hmm. Don't have one. I spend a significant amount of time wandering around watching people work, and occasionally suggesting something to them. But... 1. What do you do most? You can give 10 points to any one, or combination of the items below: (That is, if you spend all day in FrameMaker give Formating Text all 10 points. If you use mail a bit, then give it 1 point, and Formatting only 9) Editing Text (Wordstar, VI, emacs, Microsloth Word...) Formatting text (Quark Express, FrameMaker, PasteUp, TeX...) Email (mail, elm, pine...) News (tin, rn, nn ...) File transfer Unix geek commands. (cat, sed, awk,...) 2. What aggravates you most about the system? 3. What's the single most important improvement to you that you'd like to see. 4. Do you have any IWIC's (An IWIC is an "I wish I could") 5. What parts of your job do you *not* use a computer for? 6. How often do you use the following: Gluestick to stick stuff together before photocopying. Run down the hall to get/send a fax Print up a rough draft for other people to scribble on. ... Intent of these last two questions is to identify areas where people can use computers more effectively. On Wed, 10 Aug 1994, Tom Limoncelli wrote: > I'm trying to develop a survey to send out to my > users that will determine what the users are/aren't > happy about, what their needs are, etc. > > Does anyone have a sample survey that they use that they > can pass on? > > Thanks, > Tom Limoncelli > tal@big.att.com > => Sherwood Botsford sherwood@space.ualberta.ca <= => University of Alberta Lab Manager, Space Physics Group <= => tel:403 492-3713 fax: 403 492-4256 <= From: Christine.Quinn@EE-CF.Stanford.EDU Message-Id: <199408101918.AA24984@Gordon-Biersch.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Re: User Survey Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 12:18:06 -0700 Tom- Here's something I created, but alas, never used - the idea to survey computer users in the School of Engineering here was squelched before it could make it's debut. You are welcome to use whatever part you think is worthy. -------- cut here -------- To answer this questionnaire delete the lines with the answers that don't apply to you, leaving the ones that do. Fill in blanks as appropriate. ========================================================================= A. USER PROFILE ========================================================================= 1. Name 2. Location (building and room) 3. Status? Faculty Staff Student Visiting Scholar Other ___________ 4. To what extent do you consider yourself computer-competent in your discipline? not a computer user new user average (normal job duties) experienced (advanced functions) 5. How many years have you been a computer user? none less than one year one to three years more than three years 6. What percentage of your school/job responsibilities rely on or interact with computing? 0% 1-25% 26-50% 51-75% 76-100% 7. Do you see this growing? Yes No don't know 8. If yes, by how much in the next five years? 0% 1-25% 26-50% 51-75% 76-100% Don't know ========================================================================= B. COMPUTER USAGE PROFILE ========================================================================= 1. Which kinds of machine do you currently use? (may leave more than one) UNIX workstation on your desk Public UNIX workstation Macintosh on your desk Public Mac PC on your desk Public PC Terminal on your desk Public terminal Sierra or other central UNIX computer Forsythe Other __________________________ Not a computer user (if not a computer user, answer B2 then go to C3) 2. Which of the following that you do not currently use, would help you in your job? (may leave more than one) UNIX workstation on your desk Public UNIX workstation Macintosh on your desk Public Mac PC on your desk Public PC Terminal on your desk Public terminal Sierra or other central UNIX computer Forsythe 3. What types of applications do you use? (may leave more than one) Email daily weekly monthly Word processing daily weekly monthly Spreadsheet daily weekly monthly Graphics daily weekly monthly Scientific (type________________) daily weekly monthly Programming daily weekly monthly Forsythe program (_________) daily weekly monthly Other _________________________ daily weekly monthly 6. What peripheral hardware do you personally currently use? (may leave more than one) Local printer Centralized printer Local plotter Centralized plotter Scanner Computer fax Modem Other _________________________ 7. What peripheral hardware that you do *not* currently use would help you in your work? (may leave more than one) Local printer Centralized printer Local plotter Centralized plotter Scanner Computer fax Modem Other _________________________ 8. Is your machine connected to (may leave more than one) SUNet a TIP line(serial)/GANDALF Apple Network PC network Modem Not connected Don't know 9. Would you like to have your machine connected to (may leave more than one) SUNet a TIP line(serial)/GANDALF Apple Network PC network Modem Don't need connection don't understand the advantage of networking 10. Of the computer systems you use, what system do you often need the most help with? Your own machine Public mac or pc Sierra Other central UNIX machine Forsythe Public terminal Network connection TIP connection 11. Of the computer systems you use, what system do you need the least help with? Your own machine Public mac or pc Sierra Other central UNIX machine Forsythe Public terminal Network connection TIP connection ========================================================================= C. COMPUTER MANAGEMENT AND PLANNING ========================================================================= 1. Which machines do you manage (i.e. are you system administrator for:) (may leave more than one) your own machine 1-3 other machines more than 3 machines (#____) All of the dept's machines (#____) 2. If you do not manage your own machine, who does? Department staff member Student Faculty member Outside service (who ___________) No one Other ____________________________ 3. If you plan for the purchase of computers in your area, with whom do you normally coordinate such efforts? 4. If you don't plan for the purchase of computers in your area, who does? (SKIP TO QUESTION D1) 5. Are you planning on adding new hardware (PC, MAC or workstation) to your current environment: In the next six months In the next year In the next five years 6. If you answered 16, what do you plan on adding? PCs (number _________) Macintoshes (number ______) UNIX Workstations (number_________) other (________________ number_______) 7. How many of the machines (in 6) will require SUNet connections? _______ 8. How many of the machines (in 6) will require TIP connections? _______ 9. How many of the machines (in 6) will require PC or MAC network connections? _______ ========================================================================= D. TRAINING ========================================================================= 1. For which computer systems have you had training at Stanford? IBM PC and applications Mac and applications UNIX (Sierra or other UNIX) Forsythe and applications Using a terminal Networking Other ____________________________ 2. For which computer systems would you like to have training? IBM PC and applications Mac and applications UNIX (Sierra or other UNIX) Forsythe and applications Using a terminal Networking Other ______________________________ 3. What training would you like to see that is currently not offered? ========================================================================= E. GENERAL SATISFACTION ========================================================================= 1. What do you like best about your computational resources? 2. What are your worst complaints about your computational resources? 3. Is there information lacking that would help you find ways to better use your computer? If so, please describe. 4. Do you have access to all computer services you need, and if not what additional services could you use? ========================================================================= F. NEW TOOLS ========================================================================= 1. Which of the following would you be interested in? Interactive Computer Video Technologies Electronic Gradebook Hypermedia Software Multimedia Computer Systems Instructional Software Development Video Projection Systems Geographical Information Systems Computer Aided Design Software Scientific Data Visualization S/W Expert Systems Software Simulated Neural N/W Software Relational Database Management System Scanned Course Notes On-Screen Course Notes Other _______________________________ From sage-members-owner Fri Aug 12 17:28:22 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA22195; Fri, 12 Aug 94 17:28:22 PDT Received: from de5.CTD.ORNL.GOV by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA22188; Fri, 12 Aug 94 17:28:19 PDT Received: (from de5@localhost) by de5.CTD.ORNL.GOV (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA05365; Fri, 12 Aug 1994 20:28:19 -0400 Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 20:28:19 -0400 From: Dave Sill Message-Id: <199408130028.UAA05365@de5.CTD.ORNL.GOV> To: jwang@houston.sgp.slb.com (John I-Chung Wang) Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: How good will LISA VIII be? In-Reply-To: <9408122050.AA05669@houston.sgp.slb.com> References: <9408122050.AA05669@houston.sgp.slb.com> X-Mailer: VM Version 5.65 (beta) with GNU Emacs 19.22.1 of Thu Mar 24 1994 on sws1 (berkeley-unix) Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, Tenn., USA X-Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my employer Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk John I-Chung Wang wrote: > I have a tentative agreement with my boss to attend LISA VIII in >San Diego provided that I first make certain that it won't be a waste of >time. Does anyone have any opinions about these conferences? How are the >tutorials structured? How useful has it been? or even stories of shear >boredom would be welcomed. I went to LISA VII and thought is was quite worthwhile, but whether or not it is a waste of time depends upon what you expect from it. I consider it a success if it turns me on to few really good ideas. It's probably not reasonable to expect a 1/2 day tutorial to teach you everything you need to know about a topic. If you read through the list of tutorials, papers, and talks, and find few that really interest you--and you're not already an expert on the topic--you stand a good chance of picking up some useful ideas. And of course you get to meet people (in person) with similar interests. If you live in the San Franscisco Bay area, you probably have other opportunities to do this, though. Finally, if you're like many system administrators I know, the chance to spend a week away from the incessant stream of "urgent" user requests and ponder solutions that will make them easier to deal with them is invaluable. -Dave From sage-members-owner Sat Aug 13 10:48:19 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA02447; Sat, 13 Aug 94 10:48:19 PDT Received: from spsgate.sps.mot.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA02440; Sat, 13 Aug 94 10:48:16 PDT Received: from mogate (mogate.sps.mot.com) by spsgate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA15094; Sat, 13 Aug 94 10:48:21 MST Received: from motsps.sps.mot.com by mogate (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0) id AA20982; Sat, 13 Aug 94 10:48:20 MST Received: from ptsg-austin.sps.mot.com by motsps.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.1) id AA12305; Sat, 13 Aug 94 10:48:18 MST Received: by ptsg-austin.sps.mot.com (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA19419; Sat, 13 Aug 94 12:47:01 -0500 Date: Sat, 13 Aug 94 12:47:01 -0500 From: borowicz@ptsg-austin.sps.mot.com ( Bobs local Account) Message-Id: <9408131747.AA19419@ptsg-austin.sps.mot.com> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: LISA...how good Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk John I-Chung Wang wrote: > I have a tentative agreement with my boss to attend LISA VIII in >San Diego provided that I first make certain that it won't be a waste of >time. Does anyone have any opinions about these conferences? How are the >tutorials structured? How useful has it been? or even stories of shear >boredom would be welcomed. John, I would add to what Dave said so well. I pushed real hard to go this year after missing last year. If you take SysAdmin seriously or even consider it a career then LISA is a must. I would be surprised at anyone who performs Unix SysAdmin who attends LISA would come away saying it was a waste of time. I think that in Unix you periodically need to evaluate how you do things IE: NFS; NIS; Backups etc. Attending LISA provides you with LOTS of exposure to other peoples way of doing things. This is both refreshing and inspiring to me. LISA is the one professional conference dedicated to System Administration. It is well run and well attended. If you spend any time on SysAdmin the decision to go should be a no brainer. No I'm not a Usenix executive. :-) later Robert K. Borowicz - CAD Systems Administrator borowicz@ptsg-austin.sps.mot.com Motorola Corportation Inc. Austin, Texas USA From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 15 00:29:50 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA12563; Mon, 15 Aug 94 00:29:50 PDT Received: from sgigate.sgi.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA12556; Mon, 15 Aug 94 00:29:46 PDT Received: from relay.sgi.com (relay.sgi.com [192.26.51.36]) by sgigate.sgi.com (940519.SGI.8.6.9/8.6.4) with SMTP id AAA17831; Mon, 15 Aug 1994 00:29:50 -0700 Received: from eurohub.neu.sgi.com by relay.sgi.com via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @sgigate.sgi.com:sage-members@usenix.org id AA10448; Mon, 15 Aug 94 00:29:44 -0700 Received: from crash.neu.sgi.com by eurohub.neu.sgi.com via SMTP (920330.SGI/911001.SGI) for @relay.sgi.com:borowicz@ptsg-austin.sps.mot.com id AA10019; Mon, 15 Aug 94 09:29:26 +0200 Received: from localhost. neu.sgi.com by crash.neu.sgi.com via SMTP (931110.SGI/911001.SGI) for @eurohub.neu.sgi.com:sage-members@usenix.org id AA20567; Mon, 15 Aug 94 09:29:10 +0200 Message-Id: <9408150729.AA20567@crash.neu.sgi.com> To: borowicz@ptsg-austin.sps.mot.com ( Bobs local Account) Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG, zwicky@crash.neu.sgi.com Subject: Re: LISA...how good In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 13 Aug 94 12:47:01 CDT." <9408131747.AA19419@ptsg-austin.sps.mot.com> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 09:29:10 +0200 From: Elizabeth Zwicky Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk I am, in some sense, a USENIX executive, or at least a SAGE board member (executive does tend to imply that they actually *pay* you, which is far from being the case). Since my opinion is therefore terribly biased, I wouldn't bother to provide it, except that somebody just said that LISA is the only system administration conference. It's my personal favorite; it's certainly the largest, and the longest-running; but it's not the only one. Most years there are three, and last year there were four. In addition to LISA, there is SANS in the US; LISA tends to aim at the cutting edge, while SANS leans more towards current best practice. (LISA is also about 1,500 people to SANS' 300, which you may regard as either more variety or too big a crowd.) In Australia, there is SAGE-AU's annual conference, and last year SAGE-UK also had a conference. If you've never had the experience of being in the same space with dozens, hundreds, or thousands of other system administrators, you owe it to yourself to try it; even if the tutorials and the talks don't help you, the discussion at coffee breaks is an education in itself. I go to LISA every year, even if I have to pay out of my own pocket. Elizabeth D. Zwicky zwicky@corp.sgi.com (Sender may be farther away than she appears.) From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 15 05:22:43 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA14172; Mon, 15 Aug 94 05:22:43 PDT Received: from mgc.mentorg.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA14165; Mon, 15 Aug 94 05:22:39 PDT Received: from warren.mentorg.com by mgc.mentorg.com with SMTP (16.6/15.5+MGC-TD 2.20) id AA06304; Mon, 15 Aug 94 05:22:38 -0700 Received: from plts.org by Warren.MENTORG.COM with UUCP id AA05533 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Mon, 15 Aug 1994 08:22:36 -0400 Received: by plts.org id AA20413 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Mon, 15 Aug 1994 08:18:39 -0400 From: Tom Limoncelli Message-Id: <199408151218.AA20413@plts.org> Subject: Re: LISA...how good To: zwicky@crash.neu.sgi.com (Elizabeth Zwicky) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 8:18:39 EDT Cc: borowicz@ptsg-austin.sps.mot.com, sage-members@usenix.ORG, zwicky@crash.neu.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <9408150729.AA20567@crash.neu.sgi.com>; from "Elizabeth Zwicky" at Aug 15, 94 9:29 am Caution: Wet floor Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Elizabeth Zwicky writes about the value of going to a LISA conference: > If you've never had the experience of being in the same space with > dozens, hundreds, or thousands of other system administrators, you owe > it to yourself to try it; even if the tutorials and the talks don't > help you, the discussion at coffee breaks is an education in itself. >... This is an excellent lead-in to something I've been wanting to bring up for a while. What is the difference between an amateur and a professional? I'm not talking whether or not you are paid, but whether or not you act amateurish or professionally and whether you are treated with the appropriate amount of respect by the people around you, the people you work for, and society. At a recent retreat, a friend brought up the notion that in her field (psychiatry) extra schooling is required to become professionalized, and what she discovered was that 70% of her professionalization was from being with other people going through the same "professionalization" process. Growing together, maturing together, watching their teachers; they all learned how to walk, talk, dress, act like a "professional". By the time their schooling was done, they were "professionals" (the social definition, at least). Hearing that really got me thinking. One of the goals of SAGE is to get more respect for system administration as a profession. Yet, we have no schools that let's us interact with others for years before we hit the "real world". In fact, it is quite the opposite. I think the term "on the job training" must have been created to describe system administrators. Sysadmins usually work in isolation. There may be one per department, one per area, etc. If you are the sysadmin for a bunch of chemists at a medical research company, there is no one you can turn to and ask for technical opinions or even talk about better ways to manage your time, do major overhauls, etc. The nearest thing you have is Usenet, which many sysadmins don't have access to. Even if you do, it can be difficult to explain an entire 10-net, 100-machine network so that you can ask, "What's the best way to configure automounter in this situation?". If you do, you're likely to get 50 replies saying, "Ugh, I hate automounter. It sucks, dude!" Other technical questions might be difficult to ask because you are skirting around with not exposing proprietary information. So, what do we sysadmins have instead? We have LISA/SAGE/SANS/Usenix conferences. They are our universities where we interact with others, learn from scholars and get sage advice. In that respect, these conferences go a long way to reaching the goals of SAGE. However, they are only a couple times year; not everyone can go to them; they are expensive and require you to leave work for long periods of time. $GROUPNAME (a SAGE-like organization in New Jersey... the birthplace of Unix) has "cluster groups" every other month. We pick restaurants around the state (one in the south, one in the central, etc.) and we hold social gatherings simultaneously. Sometimes we pick a theme and report back what each group did with their theme. For example, once we had each group come up with a list of what is their most used publicly- available software. We all learned a lot from each other at that meeting, and later it was interesting to compare what the groups listed in common.* The cluster groups provide a social space for system administrators. Some people role-model good behavior while others learn. Sometimes it's like "Usenet-live" with a 10 people talking at once about how they switched configured automounter, but often we talk about meta-topics like how to manage your time, your users, your manager, etc. How difficult is it to form a cluster group? Not very. We gain members by posting to the appropriate mailing lists and newsgroups. We do all the arrangements via email. The most important thing is to have the locations be somewhat consistent (so people only get lost their first time) and the time/date consistent (so people can place for it). Best of all, there can't be any turf wars because the hope is to have many going on in each part of the state. If a turf war starts, start an additional cluster! What about the future? Well, I don't think that cluster groups and conferences alone will change our industry. The SAGE Job Descriptions Booklet, salary surveys, and other tools are also needed. Maybe someday it will be expected that sysadmins will have some kind of advanced degree. Then again, the most accurate way to predict the future is to be the one that creates it. --tal Footnote: * -- To see the results of these discussions: echo get groupname 94-04-21-central-jersey-cluster-report | mail majordomo@plts.org echo get groupname 94-04-21-south-jersey-cluster-report | mail majordomo@plts.org -- Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.org (home) -- tal@big.att.com (work) "I guess some days there just aren't enough rocks." -Forrest Gump From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 15 05:58:00 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA14493; Mon, 15 Aug 94 05:58:00 PDT Received: from sgigate.sgi.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA14467; Mon, 15 Aug 94 05:57:54 PDT Received: from relay.sgi.com (relay.sgi.com [192.26.51.36]) by sgigate.sgi.com (940519.SGI.8.6.9/8.6.4) with SMTP id FAA01330; Mon, 15 Aug 1994 05:57:58 -0700 Received: from eurohub.neu.sgi.com by relay.sgi.com via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @sgigate.sgi.com:sage-members@usenix.org id AA14758; Mon, 15 Aug 94 05:57:48 -0700 Received: from crash.neu.sgi.com by eurohub.neu.sgi.com via SMTP (920330.SGI/911001.SGI) for @relay.sgi.com:tal@plts.org id AA19195; Mon, 15 Aug 94 14:57:40 +0200 Received: from localhost. neu.sgi.com by crash.neu.sgi.com via SMTP (931110.SGI/911001.SGI) for @eurohub.neu.sgi.com:sage-members@usenix.org id AA28545; Mon, 15 Aug 94 14:57:36 +0200 Message-Id: <9408151257.AA28545@crash.neu.sgi.com> To: Tom Limoncelli Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: LISA...how good In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 15 Aug 94 08:18:39 EDT." <199408151218.AA20413@plts.org> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 14:57:36 +0200 From: Elizabeth Zwicky Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk I seem to be stuck in correction mode today. $GROUPNAME is not a SAGE-like organization; it's local group of system administrators, a BackBayLISA-, NCSA-, EnglishBayLISA-, SAGE-AU-Victoria-like organization. (The preceding list is not complete, but merely representative, and is not chronological, i.e. $GROUPNAME may predate some of them.) SAGE thinks such organizations are a really good idea, because they encourage interaction between system administrators in a way that SAGE itself can't - a local group is your best bet for being able to talk to other system administrators in person every month. If there is a local group in your area, I encourage you to contact it (both the SAGE WWW page, http:/www.sage.usenix.org/, and the SAGE section in ;login: list all the local groups known to SAGE, and if you know of one that's not listed, please let me know). If there isn't a local group in your area, the nice people on sage-locals will be glad to help you get one started. Elizabeth D. Zwicky zwicky@corp.sgi.com (Author may be further away than she appears) From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 15 06:55:03 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA14985; Mon, 15 Aug 94 06:55:03 PDT Received: from spsgate.sps.mot.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA14978; Mon, 15 Aug 94 06:55:00 PDT Received: from mogate (mogate.sps.mot.com) by spsgate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA01704; Mon, 15 Aug 94 06:55:02 MST Received: from motsps.sps.mot.com by mogate (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0) id AA02878; Mon, 15 Aug 94 06:55:00 MST Received: from ptsg-austin.sps.mot.com by motsps.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.1) id AA25762; Mon, 15 Aug 94 06:54:56 MST Received: by ptsg-austin.sps.mot.com (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA22574; Mon, 15 Aug 94 08:53:39 -0500 From: "Robert Borowicz Austin" Message-Id: <9408150853.ZM646@nantucket> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 08:53:36 -0500 In-Reply-To: Elizabeth Zwicky "Re: LISA...how good" (Aug 15, 9:29am) References: <9408150729.AA20567@crash.neu.sgi.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.0.1 04apr94) To: Elizabeth Zwicky Subject: Re: LISA...how good Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk On Aug 15, 9:29am, Elizabeth Zwicky wrote: > Subject: Re: LISA...how good > > I am, in some sense, a USENIX executive, or at least a SAGE board > member (executive does tend to imply that they actually *pay* you, > which is far from being the case). Since my opinion is therefore > terribly biased, I wouldn't bother to provide it, except that somebody > just said that LISA is the only system administration conference. > It's my personal favorite; it's certainly the largest, and the > longest-running; but it's not the only one. Most years there are > three, and last year there were four. In addition to LISA, there is > SANS in the US; LISA tends to aim at the cutting edge, while SANS > leans more towards current best practice. (LISA is also about 1,500 > people to SANS' 300, which you may regard as either more variety or > too big a crowd.) In Australia, there is SAGE-AU's annual conference, > and last year SAGE-UK also had a conference. I knew I'd be setting myself up to be corrected, but alas I'm a non-engineer working for/with many engineers. Elizabeth, how long has the SAGE-?? conferences been going on. Also this year is the first time (in my 3 years in the business) I've noticed a SANS, was it a first ? Seemed more focused than LISA, maybe a help Geographically for those East Coasters ? > > If you've never had the experience of being in the same space with > dozens, hundreds, or thousands of other system administrators, you owe > it to yourself to try it; even if the tutorials and the talks don't > help you, the discussion at coffee breaks is an education in itself. > I go to LISA every year, even if I have to pay out of my own pocket. > > Elizabeth D. Zwicky > zwicky@corp.sgi.com > (Sender may be farther away than she appears.) > > > > >-- End of excerpt from Elizabeth Zwicky -- Robert K. Borowicz - CAD Systems Administrator borowicz@ptsg-austin.sps.mot.com Motorola Corportation Inc. Austin, Texas USA From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 15 07:09:58 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA15094; Mon, 15 Aug 94 07:09:58 PDT Received: from sgigate.sgi.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA15087; Mon, 15 Aug 94 07:09:52 PDT Received: from relay.sgi.com (relay.sgi.com [192.26.51.36]) by sgigate.sgi.com (940519.SGI.8.6.9/8.6.4) with SMTP id HAA05070; Mon, 15 Aug 1994 07:09:57 -0700 Received: from eurohub.neu.sgi.com by relay.sgi.com via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @sgigate.sgi.com:sage-members@usenix.org id AA16260; Mon, 15 Aug 94 07:09:49 -0700 Received: from crash.neu.sgi.com by eurohub.neu.sgi.com via SMTP (920330.SGI/911001.SGI) for @relay.sgi.com:borowicz@nantucket.sps.mot.com id AA21410; Mon, 15 Aug 94 16:09:35 +0200 Received: from localhost. neu.sgi.com by crash.neu.sgi.com via SMTP (931110.SGI/911001.SGI) for @eurohub.neu.sgi.com:sage-members@usenix.org id AA00878; Mon, 15 Aug 94 16:09:32 +0200 Message-Id: <9408151409.AA00878@crash.neu.sgi.com> To: "Robert Borowicz Austin" Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: LISA...how good In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 15 Aug 94 08:53:36 CDT." <9408150853.ZM646@nantucket> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 16:09:32 +0200 From: Elizabeth Zwicky Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk SAGE-UK has only had the one conference, last year; SAGE-AU just finished its second conference. SANS in 1995 will be the fourth. The primary difference between SANS and LISA is that SANS aims at current best practice, including commercial solutions, and LISA aims at the state of the art; LISA tends to be more advanced and more theoretical. Either one of them will send you home itching to ftp half-a-dozen things, however. SAGE-AU and SAGE-UK conferences obviously always occur in Australia and Great Britain, respectively. SANS is reasonably committed to staying on the East Coast of the US, while LISA theoretically moves around, although it will next be east of the Mississippi in 1996, when it is tentatively scheduled to be in Chicago. (I feel myself being sucked unwillingly into the quicksand of the Location Discussion yet again: let me point out that we all agree that moving LISA around is a good thing, and that 1996 is the first year when it is possible.) Elizabeth D. Zwicky zwicky@corp.sgi.com (If you are in Europe, author may be closer than she appears) From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 15 07:39:50 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA15484; Mon, 15 Aug 94 07:39:50 PDT Received: from inet2.tek.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA15477; Mon, 15 Aug 94 07:39:47 PDT Received: from tektronix.tek.com by inet2.tek.com id ; Mon, 15 Aug 1994 07:40:01 -0700 Received: from dtl.labs.tek.com (crl.labs.tek.com) by tektronix.TEK.COM (4.1/8.2) id AA15324; Mon, 15 Aug 94 07:39:51 PDT Received: by dtl.labs.tek.com (4.1/8.0) id AA12089; Mon, 15 Aug 94 07:39:30 PDT From: halm@dtl.LABS.TEK.COM (Hal Miller) Message-Id: <9408151439.AA12089@dtl.labs.tek.com> Subject: Re: LISA...how good To: tal@plts.org (Tom Limoncelli) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 7:39:29 PDT Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG In-Reply-To: <199408151218.AA20413@plts.org>; from "Tom Limoncelli" at Aug 15, 94 8:18 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Tom Limoncelli writes: > What is the difference between an amateur and a professional? I'm not > talking whether or not you are paid, but whether or not you act > amateurish or professionally and whether you are treated with the > appropriate amount of respect by the people around you, the people you > work for, and society. We in SAGE-AU went through this recently too. Our discussions followed a line similar to that your psychiatry-friend seems to have gone through. We wanted a professional look, both from within (we should act and feel like professionals) and from without (we should be seen as, and respected as professionals). > One of the goals of SAGE is to > get more respect for system administration as a profession. We hit on two primary areas to deal with right away, and a few others for follow-on work later (a sysadmin just has so much time to devote to things other than day-to-day operations). We came up with a Code of Professional Ethics (it's in the recent issue of ";login:"), and are nearly through putting together a list of "course agenda" items for a university level sysadmin class. We have some members teaching from it already, and it seems to be working out great. The intention is to continue on and create a series of continuing professional education units for folks to read at their leisure, in order to make maximum use of limited time in trying to stay up with the profession. As has been pointed out, we among others created local groups too. I fully support Tom's words in this regard (for that matter, I'm not disagreeing with any of his other points either). Other work areas we have talked about included certification and the job description issue (completed first by SAGE-US, thus SAGE-AU just made use of the results). I know that there are lots of strong feelings about certification, and we had no answers yet. That'll come in time. I suggest that the Code and course agenda are not "the answer", but a couple of good starting points. I concur that this is a very necessary part of SAGE, and in fact was one of the primary reasons I've been involved from the start. HM former President, SAGE-AU -- |Hal Miller halm@dtl.labs.tek.com | Systems Administrator (HAM10) | |Tektronix Research Laboratory | (TEL) +1 503 627-5101 | |P.O. Box 500, M/S 50-662 | (MOB) +1 503 329-9078 | |Beaverton, Oregon 97077 USA | (FAX) +1 503 627-7875 | From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 15 08:24:09 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA15983; Mon, 15 Aug 94 08:24:09 PDT Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.COM) by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA15976; Mon, 15 Aug 94 08:24:07 PDT From: pomeranz@TFS.COM Received: from twister.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP Received: by twister.tfs.com (5.0/client-1.5) id AA23773; Mon, 15 Aug 1994 08:24:02 +0800 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 08:24:02 +0800 Message-Id: <9408151524.AA23773@twister.tfs.com> In-Reply-To: Elizabeth Zwicky "Re: LISA...how good" (Aug 15, 9:29am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Elizabeth Zwicky , borowicz@ptsg-austin.sps.mot.com ( Bobs local Account) Subject: Re: LISA...how good Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG Content-Length: 632 Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Elizabeth points out a nice metric for how good a conference is-- are you willing to go on your own nickel? This is the first year where my employer is unwilling to pay for my trip, and I'm certainly going. By the way, if you volunteer at least ten hours at the conference, the USENIX folks will waive your technical session fee. This may help you get to the conference a little cheaper. Contact Toni Veglia (toni@usenix.org) if you want to volunteer. I assume the number of volunteer slots is limited, so apply quickly. No, I'm not a USENIX executive or SAGE Board member, but I have been a USENIX/SAGE booth bunny... --Hal From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 15 08:31:38 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA16090; Mon, 15 Aug 94 08:31:38 PDT Received: from spsgate.sps.mot.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA16083; Mon, 15 Aug 94 08:31:34 PDT Received: from mogate (mogate.sps.mot.com) by spsgate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA18763; Mon, 15 Aug 94 08:31:29 MST Received: from motsps.sps.mot.com by mogate (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0) id AA06489; Mon, 15 Aug 94 08:31:23 MST Received: from ptsg-austin.sps.mot.com by motsps.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.1) id AA01403; Mon, 15 Aug 94 08:31:19 MST Received: by ptsg-austin.sps.mot.com (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA22791; Mon, 15 Aug 94 10:30:00 -0500 From: "Robert Borowicz Austin" Message-Id: <9408151029.ZM723@nantucket> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 10:29:57 -0500 In-Reply-To: pomeranz@TFS.COM "Re: LISA...how good" (Aug 15, 8:24am) References: <9408151524.AA23773@twister.tfs.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.0.1 04apr94) To: pomeranz@tfs.com, Elizabeth Zwicky , borowicz@easter.sps.mot.com ( Bobs local Account) Subject: Re: LISA...how good Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk On Aug 15, 8:24am, pomeranz@TFS.COM wrote: > Subject: Re: LISA...how good > Elizabeth points out a nice metric for how good a conference is-- are > you willing to go on your own nickel? This is the first year where my > employer is unwilling to pay for my trip, and I'm certainly going. When you do this is it not tax deductable since its career related and not reimbursed ? > > By the way, if you volunteer at least ten hours at the conference, the > USENIX folks will waive your technical session fee. This may help you > get to the conference a little cheaper. Contact Toni Veglia > (toni@usenix.org) if you want to volunteer. I assume the number of > volunteer slots is limited, so apply quickly. Great advice ! Also there are student prices that also make it doable. > > No, I'm not a USENIX executive or SAGE Board member, but I have been > a USENIX/SAGE booth bunny... > > --Hal >-- End of excerpt from pomeranz@TFS.COM From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 15 09:30:21 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA16889; Mon, 15 Aug 94 09:30:21 PDT Received: from cae.retix.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA16882; Mon, 15 Aug 94 09:30:17 PDT Received: from sleepy.retix.com (sleepy.retix.com [163.182.52.17]) by cae.retix.com (8.6.7/8.6.4) with ESMTP id JAA00152; Mon, 15 Aug 1994 09:26:41 -0700 From: joshua geller Received: (joshua@localhost) by sleepy.retix.com (8.6.7/8.6.4) id JAA01945; Mon, 15 Aug 1994 09:30:56 -0700 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 09:30:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199408151630.JAA01945@sleepy.retix.com> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Cc: sage-locals#usenix.org@cae.retix.com In-Reply-To: <9408151257.AA28545@crash.neu.sgi.com> (message from Elizabeth Zwicky on Mon, 15 Aug 94 14:57:36 +0200) Subject: Re: LISA...how good Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk > SAGE thinks such organizations are a really good idea, > because they encourage interaction between system administrators in a > way that SAGE itself can't - a local group is your best bet for being > able to talk to other system administrators in person every month. If > there is a local group in your area, I encourage you to contact it > (both the SAGE WWW page, http:/www.sage.usenix.org/, and the SAGE > section in ;login: list all the local groups known to SAGE, and if you > know of one that's not listed, please let me know). If there isn't a > local group in your area, the nice people on sage-locals will be glad > to help you get one started. is there a local group in the la area? if not, is there some interest in forming one? josh From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 15 09:37:16 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA16962; Mon, 15 Aug 94 09:37:16 PDT Received: from cae.retix.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA16955; Mon, 15 Aug 94 09:37:08 PDT Received: from sleepy.retix.com (sleepy.retix.com [163.182.52.17]) by cae.retix.com (8.6.7/8.6.4) with ESMTP id JAA00181; Mon, 15 Aug 1994 09:33:33 -0700 From: joshua geller Received: (joshua@localhost) by sleepy.retix.com (8.6.7/8.6.4) id JAA01955; Mon, 15 Aug 1994 09:37:48 -0700 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 09:37:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199408151637.JAA01955@sleepy.retix.com> To: tal@plts.org Cc: zwicky@crash.neu.sgi.com, borowicz@ptsg-austin.sps.mot.com, sage-members@usenix.ORG, zwicky@crash.neu.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199408151218.AA20413@plts.org> (message from Tom Limoncelli on Mon, 15 Aug 94 8:18:39 EDT) Subject: Re: LISA...how good Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk tom writes: > Sysadmins usually work in isolation. There may be one per department, > one per area, etc. If you are the sysadmin for a bunch of chemists at > a medical research company, there is no one you can turn to and ask for > technical opinions or even talk about better ways to manage your time, > do major overhauls, etc. The nearest thing you have is Usenet, which > many sysadmins don't have access to. I currently (and usually) have a process up on IRC on a private channel. of the dozen or so habitues of this channel, I'd guess ten are sysadmins. when faced with a knotty problem, it's a good bet that one of the other channel members has solved it before. this, btw, is one of the few reasonable uses I have found for IRC. josh From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 15 10:43:18 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA17772; Mon, 15 Aug 94 10:43:18 PDT Received: from antares.mcs.anl.gov (antares9.mcs.anl.gov) by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA17765; Mon, 15 Aug 94 10:43:14 PDT Received: from mcs.anl.gov (skeeve.mcs.anl.gov [140.221.5.130]) by antares.mcs.anl.gov (8.6.4/8.6.4) with ESMTP id MAA16382; Mon, 15 Aug 1994 12:43:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199408151743.MAA16382@antares.mcs.anl.gov> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Cc: rackow@antares.mcs.anl.gov Subject: Re: LISA...how good Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 12:43:11 -0500 From: Gene Rackow Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk LISA is one of the best conferences around if you are doing systems-admin work. I'm surprised this hasn't been said already, but... As with any conference though you get out of it what you put into it. A friend of mine attended a couple years ago, and came back with quite a bit, but could not see attending another one. He did not think it was as good as he expected the conference to be. The problem was that he didn't like to talk to people, was shy in groups, and ONLY attended the conference proper. He did not mingle with people at the morning coffee, go with the groups to lunch, go to the BoF's, or be one of the multiple bar gatherings that occur. He had his family with him, as they were merging the trip with vacation. For myself, I tend to think that while at the conference I am going to live on only a couple of hours sleep a night. Take plenty of notes as to who to contact about various things you are working on, etc. Take plenty of medication for soar throat, and not be able to talk when I come back. If I was going to bring the family with, I would only be with them for the week-end before and after, not during. This is not to say that you can't do it, but if your goal is to get as much from the conference as possible, spend the time with the other people attending, sight-see at other times. I do not go to the conference to listen to the most of the paper presentations. I can get most of that from the proceedings. I do attend the ones that are of direct interest, but will skip many of the others. Look towards the alternative tracks, or the gatherings in the lobby/hall/bar/pool/???. --Gene From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 15 11:14:19 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA18152; Mon, 15 Aug 94 11:14:19 PDT Received: from alpha.xerox.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA18145; Mon, 15 Aug 94 11:14:17 PDT Received: from NTSC_MS4.ES_NTSC.Xerox.xns by alpha.xerox.com via XNS id <14434(9)>; Mon, 15 Aug 1994 11:14:12 PDT X-Ns-Transport-Id: 0000AA00A1D1726531EE Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 11:13:46 PDT From: Bruce_Hamilton.LAX1B@xerox.com Subject: Re: LISA...how good [LA local groups] In-Reply-To: <199408151630.JAA01945@sleepy.retix.com> To: joshua@cae.retix.com Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG, sage-locals#usenix.org@cae.retix.com Reply-To: BHamilton.LAX1B@xerox.com Message-Id: <"15-Aug-94 11:13:26".*.Bruce_A._Hamilton.LAX1B@Xerox.com> Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Over the past five years, I've been a member of, and witnessed the decline and fall of, LA UnixUsers, Sun Users, and X Users groups. They all experienced the common phenomenon of a small group of enthusiasts doing good work, then moving out of the area and/or getting burned out after a couple of years. Like many people, I'm willing to contribute my attendance plus occasional mailing list maintenance or envelope stuffing, but I don't have 10 hours/month to devote to the sort of program and membership development efforts that are required if you're going to bother. Part of the problem in LA is geographic dispersion. Sun Users was always Pasadena vs. South Bay. UnixUsers (like SIGCHI (at Rand) and SIGART (at the library)) ended up in Santa Monica, which is OK. Meeting rooms are a problem; e.g. Xerox stopped security staffing for the entrance next to the meeting room after 6 PM. I guess the Santa Monica (or other?) public library, or various community centers, are an option. Orange County Sun Users is still active (see the oc.slug newsgroup) -- they were even doing an elaborate newsletter in PostScript a while ago. This discussion probably should move to la.general. This thread is too big already... Cheers, --Bruce BHamilton.LAX1B@Xerox.com 310-333-3538 From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 15 14:25:22 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA19948; Mon, 15 Aug 94 14:25:22 PDT Received: from yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA19941; Mon, 15 Aug 94 14:25:13 PDT Received: from bliss.cs.colostate.edu by yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA102855; Mon, 15 Aug 1994 15:24:41 -0600 Received: by bliss (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10136; Mon, 15 Aug 94 15:24:11 MDT Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 15:24:11 MDT From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) Message-Id: <9408152124.AA10136@bliss> To: borowicz@easter.sps.mot.com, borowicz@nantucket.sps.mot.com, pomeranz@tfs.com, zwicky@crash.neu.sgi.com Subject: Re: LISA...how good Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk > On Aug 15, 8:24am, pomeranz@TFS.COM wrote: > > Subject: Re: LISA...how good > > Elizabeth points out a nice metric for how good a conference is-- are > > you willing to go on your own nickel? This is the first year where my > > employer is unwilling to pay for my trip, and I'm certainly going. > > When you do this is it not tax deductable since its career related and not > reimbursed ? Under the latest new "simpified" tax code, something like the first 2% of your income spent on professional development is not deductable. (Ever notice how each new obfuscation and addition to the tax codes is termed a "simplification," all the while the system grows more complex?) - Wayne Trzyna trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 15 19:38:07 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA22185; Mon, 15 Aug 94 19:38:07 PDT Received: from mgc.mentorg.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA22178; Mon, 15 Aug 94 19:38:03 PDT Received: from warren.mentorg.com by mgc.mentorg.com with SMTP (16.6/15.5+MGC-TD 2.20) id AA20188; Mon, 15 Aug 94 19:38:04 -0700 Received: from plts.org by Warren.MENTORG.COM with UUCP id AA06373 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Mon, 15 Aug 1994 22:37:56 -0400 Received: by plts.org id AA04241 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Mon, 15 Aug 1994 22:35:37 -0400 From: Tom Limoncelli Message-Id: <199408160235.AA04241@plts.org> Subject: Re: LISA...how good To: zwicky@crash.neu.sgi.com (Elizabeth Zwicky) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 22:35:37 EDT Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG In-Reply-To: <9408151257.AA28545@crash.neu.sgi.com>; from "Elizabeth Zwicky" at Aug 15, 94 2:57 pm Caution: Wet floor Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk > I seem to be stuck in correction mode today. $GROUPNAME is not a > SAGE-like organization; it's local group of system administrators, a > BackBayLISA-, NCSA-, EnglishBayLISA-, SAGE-AU-Victoria-like > organization. (The preceding list is not complete, but merely > representative, and is not chronological, i.e. $GROUPNAME may predate > some of them.) SAGE thinks such organizations are a really good idea, Oh, I originally had written that $GROUPNAME is a local-SAGE-like organization but thought that was too confusing. I guess I should have figured out a way to say it better. --tal -- Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.org (home) -- tal@big.att.com (work) "The internet is like a box of chocolates." -Forrest Gump (when we gets on-line) From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 15 19:38:09 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA22193; Mon, 15 Aug 94 19:38:09 PDT Received: from mgc.mentorg.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA22186; Mon, 15 Aug 94 19:38:07 PDT Received: from warren.mentorg.com by mgc.mentorg.com with SMTP (16.6/15.5+MGC-TD 2.20) id AA20185; Mon, 15 Aug 94 19:38:04 -0700 Received: from plts.org by Warren.MENTORG.COM with UUCP id AA06349 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Mon, 15 Aug 1994 22:37:53 -0400 Received: by plts.org id AA04040 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Mon, 15 Aug 1994 22:22:27 -0400 From: Tom Limoncelli Message-Id: <199408160222.AA04040@plts.org> Subject: Re: LISA...how good [LA local groups] To: BHamilton.LAX1B@xerox.com Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 22:22:27 EDT Cc: joshua@cae.retix.com, sage-members@usenix.ORG, sage-locals#usenix.org@cae.retix.com In-Reply-To: <"15-Aug-94 11:13:26".*.Bruce_A._Hamilton.LAX1B@Xerox.com>; from "Bruce_Hamilton.LAX1B@xerox.com" at Aug 15, 94 11:13 am Caution: Wet floor Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk > [...] Meeting rooms are a problem; This is why I like dinners for meetings. You can always get a table-for-twelve. :-) If you start getting too big for a dinner, it is likely that you are getting too big for people to hear each other and it's time to split anyway. That's why in NJ we have 2-3 cluster groups each 3rd Thursday of the month. --tal -- Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.org (home) -- tal@big.att.com (work) Write to me for info about internet mailing lists on these topics: Drew University Alumni/ae, IXO/tpage users, New Jersey Unix Sysadmins' Group (like SAGE), New Jersey motss, North East motss, BiNet/New Jersey, and more! From sage-members-owner Tue Aug 16 06:00:09 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA28119; Tue, 16 Aug 94 06:00:09 PDT Received: from cae.retix.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA28084; Tue, 16 Aug 94 05:59:07 PDT Received: from sleepy.retix.com (sleepy.retix.com [163.182.52.17]) by cae.retix.com (8.6.7/8.6.4) with ESMTP id FAA02955; Tue, 16 Aug 1994 05:55:33 -0700 From: joshua geller Received: (joshua@localhost) by sleepy.retix.com (8.6.7/8.6.4) id FAA04402; Tue, 16 Aug 1994 05:59:49 -0700 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 05:59:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199408161259.FAA04402@sleepy.retix.com> To: tal@plts.org Cc: BHamilton.LAX1B@xerox.com, sage-members@usenix.ORG, sage-locals@usenix.ORG Reply-To: sage-locals@usenix.ORG In-Reply-To: <199408160222.AA04040@plts.org> (message from Tom Limoncelli on Mon, 15 Aug 94 22:22:27 EDT) Subject: Re: LISA...how good [LA local groups] Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk > > [...] Meeting rooms are a problem; > This is why I like dinners for meetings. You can always get a > table-for-twelve. :-) If you start getting too big for a dinner, it is > likely that you are getting too big for people to hear each other and > it's time to split anyway. That's why in NJ we have 2-3 cluster groups > each 3rd Thursday of the month. that's an excellent idea. so far I have received two notes expressing interest in an LA are meeting. you guys should write me again and we can arrange a dinner somewhere. note followup to sage-locals though private email might be even better. josh From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 22 07:54:43 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA29590; Mon, 22 Aug 94 07:54:43 PDT Received: from cae.retix.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA29580; Mon, 22 Aug 94 07:54:40 PDT Received: (joshua@localhost) by cae.retix.com (8.6.7/8.6.4) id HAA12876; Mon, 22 Aug 1994 07:51:05 -0700 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 07:51:05 -0700 From: joshua geller Message-Id: <199408221451.HAA12876@cae.retix.com> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG, sage-locals@usenix.ORG Subject: ok! Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk doG, I'm so organized. will *all* the people who wrote me about forming an(other?) LA local group please write an other time? I will make a mailing list now. josh From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 22 10:35:29 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA00976; Mon, 22 Aug 94 10:35:29 PDT Received: from cae.retix.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA00969; Mon, 22 Aug 94 10:35:17 PDT Received: from sleepy.retix.com (sleepy.retix.com [163.182.52.17]) by cae.retix.com (8.6.7/8.6.4) with ESMTP id KAA13245; Mon, 22 Aug 1994 10:31:41 -0700 From: joshua geller Received: (joshua@localhost) by sleepy.retix.com (8.6.7/8.6.4) id KAA03520; Mon, 22 Aug 1994 10:36:02 -0700 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 10:36:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199408221736.KAA03520@sleepy.retix.com> To: sage-locals@usenix.ORG, sage-members@usenix.ORG, sage-la@cae.retix.com, sage-la-request@cae.retix.com Subject: test Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk people in the LA area interested in a local group please send mail to sage-la-request@retix.com josh From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 29 06:26:00 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA12019; Mon, 29 Aug 94 06:26:00 PDT Received: from home.interaccess.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA12012; Mon, 29 Aug 94 06:25:57 PDT Received: (from robt@localhost) by home.interaccess.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA12633; Mon, 29 Aug 1994 08:22:50 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 1994 08:22:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Owen Thomas Subject: Hello from Chicago! To: SAGE Members Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk i have recently affiliated with SAGE, and i am searching for cohorts in the Chicago area. are there any SAGE groups (or similar entities) in the greater Chicago metro region? thanx, in advance, for any answers to my query. regards, --robert o Robert Owen Thomas -- Cymru Consulting o o Unix Admin, Networking, Security, Internet, RDBMS, App Development o o e-mail: robt@cymru.com or info@cymru.com o o vox: 708.686.3600 fax: 708.686.3600 (it works, trust me) o o "When I die, I want to go sleeping like my grandfather... o o Not screaming like the passengers in his car!" o From sage-members-owner Mon Aug 29 14:04:22 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA16565; Mon, 29 Aug 94 14:04:22 PDT Received: from kitten.mcs.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA16558; Mon, 29 Aug 94 14:04:18 PDT Received: from mercury.mcs.com (root@Mercury.mcs.com [192.160.127.80]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA22553; Mon, 29 Aug 1994 16:03:50 -0500 Received: by mercury.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.3) id ; Mon, 29 Aug 94 16:03 CDT Message-Id: From: dlm@mcs.com (David Lee Makowsky) Subject: Re: Hello from Chicago! To: robt@cymru.com (Robert Owen Thomas) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 1994 16:03:47 -0500 (CDT) Cc: SAGE-Members@usenix.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Robert Owen Thomas" at Aug 29, 94 08:22:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 417 Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Robert Owen Thomas wrote: # i have recently affiliated with SAGE, and i am searching for cohorts in the # Chicago area. are there any SAGE groups (or similar entities) in the greater # Chicago metro region? Being from Chicago also, I was wondering if we could get any help forming a local group? -- There are three types of people in the world. Those that are good at math and those that are not. dlm@mcs.com From sage-members-owner Tue Aug 30 10:43:58 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA26479; Tue, 30 Aug 94 10:43:58 PDT Received: from home.interaccess.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA26472; Tue, 30 Aug 94 10:43:48 PDT Received: (from robt@localhost) by home.interaccess.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA07543; Tue, 30 Aug 1994 12:40:40 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 1994 12:40:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Owen Thomas Subject: The latest pamphlet To: SAGE Members Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk i grant high marks to Tina Darmohray's pamphlet _Job Descriptions for System Administrators_. very well assembled and informed! i have already passed copies along to several of my cohorts, as well as some HR folk with which i am aquainted. i would like to see some pamphlet or treatise on the systems-programming side of things. many times, i have functioned as a kernel hack as a corollary to my sys-admin role. even at the simplest level, i feel the most senior sys-admins (as well as network admins) should be able to debug, modify, or create systems code in C or some other language (perl!). do others share my views and see the need for such a pamphlet? i would be more than happy to offer my $.02 for such a project, if this were to come to fruition. regards, --robert o Robert Owen Thomas -- Cymru Consulting o o Unix Admin, Networking, Security, Internet, RDBMS, App Development o o e-mail: robt@cymru.com or info@cymru.com o o vox: 708.686.3600 fax: 708.686.3600 (it works, trust me) o o "When I die, I want to go sleeping like my grandfather... o o Not screaming like the passengers in his car!" o From sage-members-owner Tue Aug 30 13:46:06 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA28499; Tue, 30 Aug 94 13:46:06 PDT Received: from vanbc.wimsey.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA28492; Tue, 30 Aug 94 13:45:58 PDT Received: by vanbc.wimsey.com (Smail3.1.28.1) id m0qfZxk-0000ZpC; Tue, 30 Aug 94 13:39 PDT Message-Id: From: markh@wimsey.bc.ca (Mark C. Henderson) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 1994 13:39:24 PDT X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.1.1 5/02/90) To: Robert Owen Thomas , SAGE Members Subject: Re: The latest pamphlet Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk > > i would like to see some pamphlet or treatise on the systems-programming > side of things. many times, i have functioned as a kernel hack as a > corollary to my sys-admin role. even at the simplest level, i feel the most > senior sys-admins (as well as network admins) should be able to debug, > modify, or create systems code in C or some other language (perl!). Your right. As a sysadmin one would be crippled if one couldn't modify the kernel or do some simple systems programming. A little adb can go a long way. Some things have to be written in C. Other things are best written in an administrative language like perl. I'm pretty sure that the sysadmin job description pamphlet already mentions some level of programming skill at the senior levels (I admit, I don't have a copy beside me as I write this, so this is from memory). Mark -- Mark Henderson markh@wimsey.bc.ca - RIPEM MD5: F1F5F0C3984CBEAF3889ADAFA2437433 ViaCrypt PGP key fingerprint: 21 F6 AF 2B 6A 8A 0B E1 A1 2A 2A 06 4A D5 92 46 low security key fingerprint: EC E7 C3 A9 2C 30 25 C6 F9 E1 25 F3 F5 AF 92 E3 cryptography archive maintainer -- anon ftp to ftp.wimsey.bc.ca:/pub/crypto From sage-members-owner Tue Aug 30 15:59:51 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA29789; Tue, 30 Aug 94 15:59:51 PDT Received: from home.interaccess.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA29782; Tue, 30 Aug 94 15:59:39 PDT Received: (from robt@localhost) by home.interaccess.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA22840; Tue, 30 Aug 1994 17:28:20 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 1994 17:28:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Owen Thomas Subject: Re: The latest pamphlet To: "Mark C. Henderson" Cc: SAGE Members In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk true enough, the pamphlet does make mention of some C programming. however, not to the depth that a kernel-level coder would reach. i think, perhaps, that this should be another category altogether. a "systems programmer" ladder, perhaps. this would cover the more esoteric realms of Unix, such as the creation of device drivers, complex kernel tuning, kernel-level development, etc. this goes beyond the scope of simple debugging (well, debugging is *never* simple 8-) ) and the like. regards, --robert o Robert Owen Thomas -- Cymru Consulting o o Unix Admin, Networking, Security, Internet, RDBMS, App Development o o e-mail: robt@cymru.com or info@cymru.com o o vox: 708.686.3600 fax: 708.686.3600 (it works, trust me) o o "When I die, I want to go sleeping like my grandfather... o o Not screaming like the passengers in his car!" o From sage-members-owner Wed Aug 31 09:34:23 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA08542; Wed, 31 Aug 94 09:34:23 PDT Received: from home.interaccess.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA08535; Wed, 31 Aug 94 09:34:15 PDT Received: (from robt@localhost) by home.interaccess.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA16265; Wed, 31 Aug 1994 11:31:07 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 11:31:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Owen Thomas Subject: New list-server in Chicago! To: SAGE Members Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk hear ye hear ye hear ye hear ye there is a new list-server in town. the Chicago Unix List Server is now in operation. it is a forum, much like any, dedicated to the sharing of knowledge, experience, and research regarding system and network administration and programming. to subscribe, send e-mail to: "sysadmin-chi-request@pamd.cig.mot.com" to post, send e-mail to: "sysadmin-chi@pamd.cig.mot.com" note that this list is not exclusively for Chicago-area SAGE members and Unix types. it is open to any who wish to share in its resources. regards, --robert (list-kaiser) o Robert Owen Thomas -- Cymru Consulting o o Unix Admin, Networking, Security, Internet, RDBMS, App Development o o e-mail: robt@cymru.com or info@cymru.com o o vox: 708.686.3600 fax: 708.686.3600 (it works, trust me) o o "When I die, I want to go sleeping like my grandfather... o o Not screaming like the passengers in his car!" o From sage-members-owner Wed Sep 7 11:00:40 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA25751; Wed, 7 Sep 94 11:00:40 PDT Received: from hplms26.hpl.hp.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA25744; Wed, 7 Sep 94 11:00:37 PDT Received: from hplabsz.hpl.hp.com by hplms26.hpl.hp.com with SMTP (1.36.108.4/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1S) id AA23815; Wed, 7 Sep 1994 11:00:57 -0700 Received: by hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (1.37.109.11/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1) id AA158620836; Wed, 7 Sep 1994 11:00:36 -0700 From: "Laura de Leon" Message-Id: <9409071100.ZM15860@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 11:00:36 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.0.0 15dec93) To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: BayLISA meeting: ATM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk The BayLISA group meets monthly to discuss topics of interest for administration of sites with more than 100 users and/or computers. The meetings are free and open to the public. September 15th: Steve Romig, Ohio State University: ATM Deployment Steve will provide a from the trenches view of life with ATM. Steve is the software staff manager for the Computer science department of Ohio State University. The CS department plans to have complete ATM backbone in their new building by the beginning of the Autumn quarter. October 20th: Larry Wall, Netlabs: PERL 5 NOTE: Election time is coming up in November, with the candidates forum at the October meeting. If you've been thinking about running for the board, send a message to blw@baylisa.org for more information. BayLISA holds monthly meetings on the third Thursday of each month at 7:30 PM (please do not arrive before 7:00). We meet at Synopsys Building C in Mountain View, California off Highway 237 at Middlefield. To get further information on the meeting location, you can request it from the majordomo server on baylisa.org, you can ftp it from ftp.baylisa.org:/BayLISA/location or you can query the BayLISA mail server by cutting and pasting the following line to your shell: echo "index baylisa" | mail majordomo@baylisa.org Starting this May and going through the rest of the summer, we plan on broadcasting our meetings via MBONE. BayLISA makes video tapes of the meetings available to members. For more information on available videos, please send email to: video@baylisa.org For any other information, please send email to: info@baylisa.org If you have any questions, please contact me or the info alias listed above. From sage-members-owner Thu Sep 8 07:12:01 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA06125; Thu, 8 Sep 94 07:12:01 PDT Received: from relay2.UU.NET by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA06079; Thu, 8 Sep 94 07:06:44 PDT Received: from glueserv1.umd.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQxglz02618; Thu, 8 Sep 1994 09:47:26 -0400 Received: from geog1.umd.edu (geog1.umd.edu [129.2.24.112]) by glueserv1.umd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.4) with ESMTP id JAA06428 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 1994 09:46:12 -0400 From: Arash Sadati Received: from localhost (arash@localhost) by geog1.umd.edu (8.6.5/8.6.4) id JAA12463 for sage-members@usenix.org; Thu, 8 Sep 1994 09:46:04 -0400 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 09:46:04 -0400 Message-Id: <199409081346.JAA12463@geog1.umd.edu> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: BayLISA meeting: ATM Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk > The BayLISA group meets monthly to discuss topics of interest for > administration of sites with more than 100 users and/or computers. > The meetings are free and open to the public. Since i am new to this, i can ask some novice (or is it naive) questions: Is there any local LISA/SAGE group in the DC metro area. Considering that DC is becoming the Telecom heart of the nation, it's surprising if USENIX or SAGE do not have a local chapter in DC! I appreciate any feedback. Thanx. Arash Sadati From sage-members-owner Thu Sep 8 08:29:43 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA07038; Thu, 8 Sep 94 08:29:43 PDT Received: from whistler.sfu.ca by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA07030; Thu, 8 Sep 94 08:29:28 PDT Received: from fraser.sfu.ca (vanepp@fraser.sfu.ca [142.58.110.1]) by whistler.sfu.ca with SMTP (8.6.8/SFU-2.6H) id IAA04544 (from vanepp); Thu, 8 Sep 1994 08:29:29 -0700 From: Peter Van Epp Received: by fraser.sfu.ca (920330.SGI/SFU-2.3C) id AA17387 for sage-members@usenix.org (from vanepp); Thu, 8 Sep 94 08:29:27 -0700 Message-Id: <9409081529.AA17387@fraser.sfu.ca> Subject: Re: BayLISA meeting: ATM To: arash@glue.umd.edu (Arash Sadati) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 08:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG In-Reply-To: <199409081346.JAA12463@geog1.umd.edu> from "Arash Sadati" at Sep 8, 94 09:46:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 607 Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk There is a mailing list (currently quite inactive) called sage-locals@usenix.org, where folks like me (I started EnglishBayLISA in Vancouver Canada last year, along with a bunch of other folks) will be glad to give you suggestions on how to start up a local LISA like chapter. The folks from BayLISA, BackBayLISA, $Groupname and more I have forgotten are all on that list. I expect there will also be a BOF on local LISA groups at the upcoming LISA conference in San Diago if you are going to be there. Peter Van Epp / Operations and Technical Support Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C. Canada From sage-members-owner Thu Sep 8 11:13:12 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA09462; Thu, 8 Sep 94 11:13:12 PDT Received: from glueserv1.umd.edu by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA09450; Thu, 8 Sep 94 11:12:57 PDT Received: from geog1.umd.edu (geog1.umd.edu [129.2.24.112]) by glueserv1.umd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.4) with ESMTP id OAA17314; Thu, 8 Sep 1994 14:12:49 -0400 From: Arash Sadati Received: from localhost (arash@localhost) by geog1.umd.edu (8.6.5/8.6.4) id OAA12754; Thu, 8 Sep 1994 14:12:29 -0400 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 14:12:29 -0400 Message-Id: <199409081812.OAA12754@geog1.umd.edu> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG, sage-local@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX/SAGE local group in DC Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Is there any local LISA/SAGE group in the DC metro area. Considering that > DC is becoming the Telecom heart of the nation, it's surprising if USENIX or > SAGE do not have a local chapter in DC! > Thank you to all of you who responded to my mail. Here's what i've got so far: According to Will Nelson from Sun, there is a local UNIX users group in Laurel, MD. I got the answering machine for the number listed, but the message indicated that it was the correct number. Here is the address & phone #: o Washington Area UNIX Users Group 9811 Mallard Drive Laurel, MD 20708 Alan Fedder (301) 953-3626 There were a few people who were interested to actualize a SAGE group organized in this area. If there are more people, we can start organizing lectures and, as someone suggested, show the videos of other groups' presentataions (such as BayLISA). So, express your desire and perhaps we'll have our own *Active* DCSage group! --Arash From sage-members-owner Fri Sep 9 06:43:30 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA20814; Fri, 9 Sep 94 06:43:30 PDT Received: from glueserv1.umd.edu by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA20807; Fri, 9 Sep 94 06:43:23 PDT Received: from geog1.umd.edu (geog1.umd.edu [129.2.24.112]) by glueserv1.umd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.4) with ESMTP id JAA12460; Fri, 9 Sep 1994 09:43:18 -0400 From: Arash Sadati Received: from localhost (arash@localhost) by geog1.umd.edu (8.6.5/8.6.4) id JAA13949; Fri, 9 Sep 1994 09:42:59 -0400 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 09:42:59 -0400 Message-Id: <199409091342.JAA13949@geog1.umd.edu> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX/SAGE local group in DC Cc: kmayer@mrj.com Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi. Since I still have a small list of people with interest in a local group in DC (it's been only a day since we started :) I am posting a copy of this to the sage-members list, with the hope that we'll get responses from everyone with opion on this issue, especially those who've been in a local chapter I think besides the human interaction and a sense of SA community in locally, there are alot of oppurtunities for networking in a local chapter, that can helpus both professionally and technically. As Unix's development has been, Sys Admin.'s growth and enrichment might well depend on local but energetic groups of people who can learn, teach and create new methods and approaches. I agree that we can carry on discussions on what we want to create on the local sage mailing list. We can learn from other already existing local groups and what programs they've had and what they got out of them. > > I too am interested in getting together with other SAGE members. > Considering the fact that I'm more accessible via e-mail than the > telephone, sometimes a local SAGE group is not neccessary. Not that I'm > against local gatherings, I just want to see what advantages it would have > above the national membership. > > Perhaps the simplest way to get started is to ask the WAUG if we can piggy > back SAGE onto their monthly meetings (i.e. can we simply meet at the same > time and at the same place as the monthly WAUG gathering and break off > into a mini-BOF after the main meeting). This keeps the organizational > load small. Now all we have to do is figure out what do once we meet! > From sage-members-owner Tue Sep 13 14:08:37 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA11409; Tue, 13 Sep 94 14:08:37 PDT Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA11402; Tue, 13 Sep 94 14:08:34 PDT Received: from gaea.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA24754 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Tue, 13 Sep 1994 14:08:28 -0700 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com by gaea.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA01280 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Tue, 13 Sep 1994 14:08:23 -0700 Received: from [146.225.54.61] (mac-54-61.synopsys.com [146.225.54.61]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA01518; Tue, 13 Sep 1994 14:08:05 -0700 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 14:08:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199409132108.OAA01518@clotho.synopsys.com> X-Sender: ple@macpo-1 (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sage-announce@usenix.ORG, sage-members@usenix.ORG, baylisa@baylisa.org, bblisa-announce@cs.umb.edu, groupname@plts.org, ncsa-announce@cs.unc.edu, nysa@esm.org From: ple@Synopsys.COM (Paul Evans) Subject: LISA 9 Call for Participation Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk ANNOUNCEMENT & CALL FOR PARTICIPATION 9th USENIX SYSTEMS ADMINISTRATION CONFERENCE (LISA IX) September 18-22, 1995 Marriott Hotel Monterey, California Co-sponsored by USENIX, the UNIX and Advanced Computing Systems Professional and Technical Association, and SAGE, the System Administrators Guild IMPORTANT DATES Refereed paper submissions: Extended abstracts due: May 1, 1995 Notification to authors: June 5, 1995 Final papers due: August 1, 1995 Registration materials available: July, 1995 The USENIX Systems Administration (LISA) Conference is widely recognized as the leading technical conference for system administrators. Historically, LISA stood for "Large Installation Systems Administration," back in the days when having a large installation meant having over 100 users, over 100 systems, or over one gigabyte of disk storage. Today, the scope of the LISA conference includes topics of interest to system administrators from sites of all sizes and kinds. What the conference attendees have in common is an interest in solving problems that cannot be dealt with simply by scaling up well-understood solutions appropriate to a single machine or a small number of workstations on a LAN. The theme for this year's conference is "New Challenges," which includes such emerging issues as integration of non-UNIX and proprietary systems and networking technologies, distributed information services, network voice and video teleconferencing, and managing very complex networks. We are particularly interested in technical papers that reflect hands-on experience, describe fully implemented and freely distributable solutions, and advance the state of the art of system administration as an engineering discipline. TUTORIAL PROGRAM Monday and Tuesday, September 18-19, 1995 The two-day tutorial program at the conference offers up to five tracks of full- and half-day tutorials. Tutorials offer expert instruction in areas of interest to system administrators of all levels, from novice through senior. Topics are expected to include networking, advanced system administration tools, Solaris and BSD administration, Perl programming, firewalls, NIS, DNS, Sendmail, and more. To provide the best possible tutorial offerings, USENIX continually solicits proposals for new tutorials. If you are interested in presenting a tutorial at this or other USENIX conferences, please contact the tutorial coordinator: Daniel V. Klein +1 412 421 0285 FAX: +1 412 421 2332 E-mail: dvk@usenix.org TECHNICAL SESSIONS Wednesday through Friday, September 20-22, 1995 The three days of technical sessions consist of two parallel tracks. The first track is dedicated to presentations of refereed technical papers. The second track is intended to accommodate invited talks, panels and Works-in-Progress (WIP) sessions. CONFERENCE TOPICS Papers addressing the following topics are particularly timely; papers addressing other technical areas of general interest are equally welcome. % Dealing with differences in UNIX implementations -- migration and interoperability among BSD, SVR4, OSF and others % Integration of UNIX-based with non-UNIX-based and proprietary systems and networking technologies (Mac, NT and DOS PCs) % Application of emerging technologies (Mbone, Mosaic) to system administration % Administration and security of distributed information services (WAIS, gopher, WWW) and network voice and video teleconferencing (Mbone) % Experience supporting mobile and location-independent computing % Experience with large (1000+ machine) networks, especially networks of SVR4-based systems % Real-world experience with implementations of proposed system administration standards % Unusual applications of commercial system administration software packages % Application of operational planning techniques to system administration including measurements and metrics, continuous process improvement, automation, and increasing productivity % File migration, archival storage and backup systems in extremely large environments % Innovative tools and techniques that have worked for you % Managing high-demand and high-availability environments % Migrating to new hardware and software technologies % Administration of remote sites that have no technical experts % Supporting MIS organizations on UNIX % Real-world experiences with emerging procedural/ethical issues -- e.g., developing site policies, tracking abusers, and implementing solutions to security problems % Networking non-traditional sites (libraries, museums, K-12) REFEREED PAPER SUBMISSIONS An extended abstract is required for the paper selection process. Full papers are not acceptable at this stage; if you send a full paper, you must also include an extended abstract. "Extended" means 2-5 pages. Include references to establish that you are familiar with related work, and, where possible, provide detailed performance data to establish that you have a working implementation or measurement tool. Submissions will be judged on the quality of the written submission, and whether or not the work advances the state of the art of system administration. For more detailed author instructions and a sample extended abstract, send email to lisa9authors@usenix.org. or call USENIX at +1 510 528 8649. Note that the USENIX organization, like most conferences and journals, requires that papers not be submitted simultaneously to more than one conference or publication and that submitted papers not be previously or subsequently published elsewhere. Papers accompanied by "non-disclosure agreement" forms are not acceptable and will be returned unread. All submissions are held in the highest confidence prior to publication in the conference proceedings, both as a matter of policy and as protected by the U.S. Copyright Act of 1976. Authors of an accepted paper must provide a final paper for publication in the conference proceedings. At least one author of each accepted paper presents the paper at the conference. Final papers are limited to 20 pages, including diagrams, figures and appendixes, and must be in troff, ASCII, or LaTeX format. We will supply you with instructions. Papers should include a brief description of the site, where appropriate. Conference proceedings, containing all refereed papers and materials from the invited talks, will be distributed to attendees and will also be available from the USENIX following the conference. WHERE TO SEND SUBMISSIONS Please submit extended abstracts for the refereed paper track by two of the following methods: % E-mail to: lisa9papers@usenix.org % FAX to: +1 510 548 5738 % Mail to: LISA 9 Conference USENIX Association 2560 Ninth Street, Suite 215, Berkeley, CA USA 94710 To discuss potential submissions, and for inquiries regarding the content of the conference program, contact the program co-chairs at lisa9chair@usenix.org or at: Tina M. Darmohray Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory PO Box 808 L-510 Livermore, CA USA 94550 +1 510 423 5999 FAX: +1 510 422 7869 E-mail: tmd@usenix.org Paul Evans Synopsys, Inc. 700 East Middlefield Road Mountain View, CA USA 94043 +1 415 694 1855 FAX: +1 415 965 8637 E-mail: ple@usenix.org INVITED TALK TRACK If you have a topic of general interest to system administrators, but that is not suited for a traditional technical paper submission, please submit a proposal for a second track presentation to the invited talk (IT) coordinators: Laura de Leon, Hewlett-Packard +1 415 857 5605 FAX: +1 415 857 5686 E-mail: deleon@hpl.hp.com Peg Schafer, BBN +1 617 873-2626 FAX: +1 617 873 4265 E-mail: peg@bbn.com PROGRAM COMMITTEE Program Co-chair: Tina Darmohray, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Program Co-chair: Paul Evans, Synopsys, Inc. Paul Anderson, University of Edinburgh Kim Carney, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Rob Kolstad, Berkeley Software Design, Inc. Bryan McDonald, SRI International Marcus Ranum, Trusted Information Systems, Inc. John Schimmel, Silicon Graphics, Inc. VENDOR DISPLAY Wednesday, September 20, 1995 Well-informed vendor representatives will demonstrate products and services at the informal table-top display. If your company would like to participate, please contact: Zanna Knight +1 510 528 8649 FAX: +1 510 548 5738 E-mail: display@usenix.org BIRDS-OF-A-FEATHER SESSIONS Birds-of-a-Feather sessions (BoFs) are very informal gatherings of attendees interested in a particular topic. BoFs are held Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday evenings of the conference. BoFs may be scheduled in advance by telephoning the USENIX Conference Office at +1 714 588 8649 or via e-mail to conference@usenix.org. They may also be scheduled at the conference. FOR REGISTRATION INFORMATION All details of the conference program, conference registration fees and forms, and hotel discount and reservation information will be available in July, 1995. If you wish to receive registration materials, please contact: USENIX Conference Office 22672 Lambert Street, Suite 613 Lake Forest, CA USA 92630 +1 714 588 8649 FAX: +1 714 588 9706 E-mail: conference@usenix.org For more information about USENIX and its events, access the USENIX Resource Center on the World Wide Web. The URL is http://www.usenix.org. OR send email to our mailserver at info@usenix.org. Your message should contain the line: send catalog. A catalog will be returned to you. From sage-members-owner Tue Sep 27 10:21:45 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA14452; Tue, 27 Sep 94 10:21:45 PDT Received: from sgigate.sgi.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA14400; Tue, 27 Sep 94 10:18:41 PDT Received: from relay.sgi.com (relay.sgi.com [192.26.51.36]) by sgigate.sgi.com (940519.SGI.8.6.9/8.6.4) with SMTP id KAA10246; Tue, 27 Sep 1994 10:18:26 -0700 Received: from pterodactyl.corp.sgi.com by relay.sgi.com via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @sgigate.sgi.com:bigmac@erg.sri.com id AA00035; Tue, 27 Sep 94 10:18:24 -0700 Received: by pterodactyl.corp.sgi.com (931110.SGI/911001.SGI) for @sgi.com:sage-locals@usenix.org id AA02516; Tue, 27 Sep 94 10:06:04 -0700 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 10:06:04 -0700 From: zwicky@pterodactyl.corp.sgi.com (Elizabeth D. Zwicky) Message-Id: <9409271706.AA02516@pterodactyl.corp.sgi.com> To: bigmac@erg.sri.com, sage-announce@usenix.ORG, sage-members@usenix.ORG, sage-locals@usenix.ORG Subject: Local groups document Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk The following document on SAGE services for local groups was approved by the board at the most recent SAGE board meeting. This is the current list of services we offer; we expect to add new services to the list as time goes by (for instance, we are currently working to define a speaker registry service). Please send your comments and requests to "sage-board@usenix.org". Elizabeth D. Zwicky zwicky@usenix.org SAGE Local Group Support ------------------------ SAGE believes that local groups provide important services to the system administration community, and therefore wishes to support them as much as possible. Because we also believe that different formats and organizational structures are appropriate for different local groups, we do not want to specify one particular relationship that makes something a "SAGE local group"; instead, we provide a list of services that local groups can take advantage of or not as appropriate for their situation. These services are available to any not-for-profit group that serves system administrators. Except as stated in the requirements for particular services, SAGE makes no restrictions on the nature or name of the group. Please remember that most of the people providing these services are also volunteers with full-time jobs outside of SAGE. Requests for project funding: SAGE will entertain requests for funding of limited-term projects (booklet publishing, establishment of speaker series, etc). Calls for such proposals will be periodically announced, though the proposals themselves will be entertained at any time. Requesting groups should identify a SAGE Board member who will be willing to serve as "champion" for the proposal to the Board. SAGE will consider all proposals that benefit system administrators, but may give precedence to proposals that benefit the system administration community as a whole, as opposed to being limited to the local group. Proposals that benefit the local group only will not be considered unless the group contains at least one SAGE member. Initial formation: Advice, commiseration, and experience are available from the sage-locals working group and its associated mailing list, which is also a good place to find other people interested in forming a group in your area. SAGE will provide you with the mailing list information for those USENIX/SAGE members in your area who have authorized the release of their information, as long as you agree to use the information only once, and only for the purpose of creating a non-profit group for system administrators. Publicity: Any local group for system administrators that provides contact information will be listed in ;login:, in SAGE's WWW server, and any place else that SAGE provides local group information. The WWW server by default has an extremely basic page listing geographic coverage and contact information; local groups can provide their own page instead, or the URL for their own server. Local groups may also use the sage-announce mailing list to announce their meetings. Insurance: Many public meeting places require liability insurance for groups that wish to use them. SAGE can make arrangements to extend its liability insurance to local groups which meet the requirements of the insurance company; this will always require that a current SAGE member is a contact for the group and attends the meetings. Other requirements will vary depending on the organization of the local group and the locations it meets in. From sage-members-owner Fri Oct 7 08:00:50 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA25822; Fri, 7 Oct 94 08:00:50 PDT Received: from mox.perl.com (perl.com) by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA25814; Fri, 7 Oct 94 08:00:42 PDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mox.perl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA08027 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 1994 09:00:02 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: mox.perl.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: RFComments on various DBM strategies Reply-To: tchrist@perl.com Date: Fri, 07 Oct 94 09:00:01 MDT Message-Id: <8024.781542001@mox> From: Tom Christiansen Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk For doing thing in Perl, I'd like to standardize on Berkeley DB, but I hear it's hard to support. Here's a stab at a feature table. If you've knowledge in this area, and have a spare momemnt, I'd appreciate it if you might please fill in what you can. (These are all "supported" under perl5, but which one should a person choose and why is a FAQ whose answer I don't know.) odbm ndbm sdbm gdbm bsd-db Comes w/ perl no no yes no no Comes w/ many unix os yes yes no no no Builds ok on !unix ? ? yes yes ? Code Size ? ? small big big Database Size ? ? small big? ok? Speed ? ? slow ok ok? FTPable no no yes yes yes Easy to build N/A N/A yes yes no[1] Size limits 1k 4k 1k[2] none none Byte-order independent no no no no yes Licensing restrictions ? ? no yes no [1] unless your system is explicitly supported. Requires symbolic links. [2] by default, can be redefined I'm especially interested in the question? areas, mistakes, or omissions. thanks, --tom Tom Christiansen Perl Consultant, Gamer, Hiker tchrist@mox.perl.com "It is easier to port a shell than a shell script." --Larry Wall From sage-members-owner Fri Oct 7 12:55:02 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA29838; Fri, 7 Oct 94 12:55:02 PDT Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uucp11.netcom.com) by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA29830; Fri, 7 Oct 94 12:54:49 PDT Received: from johncon.UUCP by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.4/SMI-4.1) id MAA27282; Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:54:03 -0700 Received: by johncon.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0qtLJW-00090vC; Fri, 7 Oct 94 12:50 PDT Message-Id: Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 12:50 PDT From: john@johncon.com (John Conover) To: tchrist@perl.com Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG In-Reply-To: <8024.781542001@mox> (message from Tom Christiansen on Fri, 07 Oct 94 09:00:01 MDT) Subject: Re: RFComments on various DBM strategies Reply-To: John Conover Read-Receipt-To: john@johncon.johncon.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk > Sender: usenix.org!sage-members-owner > X-Authentication-Warning: mox.perl.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol > Reply-To: tchrist@perl.com > Date: Fri, 07 Oct 94 09:00:01 MDT > From: Tom Christiansen > Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.org > Precedence: bulk > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 1489 > > For doing thing in Perl, I'd like to standardize on Berkeley DB, but I > hear it's hard to support. Here's a stab at a feature table. If you've > knowledge in this area, and have a spare momemnt, I'd appreciate it if you > might please fill in what you can. (These are all "supported" under > perl5, but which one should a person choose and why is a FAQ whose answer > I don't know.) > > > odbm ndbm sdbm gdbm bsd-db > > Comes w/ perl no no yes no no > Comes w/ many unix os yes yes no no no > Builds ok on !unix ? ? yes yes ? > Code Size ? ? small big big > Database Size ? ? small big? ok? > Speed ? ? slow ok ok? > FTPable no no yes yes yes > Easy to build N/A N/A yes yes no[1] > Size limits 1k 4k 1k[2] none none > Byte-order independent no no no no yes > Licensing restrictions ? ? no yes no > > [1] unless your system is explicitly supported. Requires symbolic links. > [2] by default, can be redefined > > I'm especially interested in the question? areas, mistakes, or omissions. > Hi Tom. I did btreeperl using Berkeley DBM for perl 4.036. One of the issues that prompted this was that bsd-db supports btrees, and that will allow multiple identical keys, and the operators "less than," "greater than," etc. One of the issues is that bsd-db is not concurrent multi-user (unless you serialize transactions in a client-server scheme.) It is my understanding that the authors of bsd-db are in the process of adding TA processing, etc., so I would suppose that it is under a major re-write at this time. Bsd-db is a good choice, IMHO-it is heavily cached and is very fast, (to about 25K transactions per minute on my 16MHZ 386 at home,) and I didn't have too much trouble doing all of the system ports-the only significant issue is that there is not documentation on how to do it. Bsd-db is supposedly a re-write the index code of the postgres database indexing system. The authors are at Berkeley, and are responsive to the mailing address in the sources. One issue on using btrees is that multiple keys do not fit into the associative array paradigm well-which is one of the corner stones of Perl. L. Wall will probably disagree with me, but I think a btree scheme should be added to perl/Perl to facilitate corporate wide distributed databases. Perl is an ideal environment to do this-eg., get away from the centralized IS concept-but robustness and concurrency would be an issue and should be addressed in the btree engine-which also means we need an fsync(2) call in Perl (hint hint.) BTW, ndbm does not come "standard" on the system V systems-it is usually only in the BSD compatability libraries, which have a perception of being "buggie." GDBM seems to run much slower than the ndbm's, and is not source code compatable-in ndbm the key/data area is static (thus the key/data information is destroyed on the next fetch call,) and in gdbm the key/data area has to be free'd when you are through with it (otherwise, a memory leak.) One issue that is not addressed in the above table (I don't know how important it is) is MSDOS compatability. Extensible hash gizmos usually have some issues in the frail MSDOS file system. Just some opinions ... John -- John Conover, 631 Lamont Ct., Campbell, CA., 95008, USA. VOX 408.370.2688, FAX 408.379.9602 john@johncon.com From sage-members-owner Sat Oct 8 20:16:53 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA06043; Sat, 8 Oct 94 20:16:53 PDT Received: from turtle.mrj.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA06036; Sat, 8 Oct 94 20:16:47 PDT Received: from gecko.mrj.com (gecko.mrj.com [192.101.175.68]) by turtle.mrj.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) with ESMTP id XAA23219; Sat, 8 Oct 1994 23:13:38 -0400 Received: from localhost (kmayer@localhost) by gecko.mrj.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) id XAA05279; Sat, 8 Oct 1994 23:13:36 -0400 Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 23:13:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Mayer Subject: New mailing list for local USENIX/SAGE group in Washington, DC To: sage-local@usenix.ORG Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG In-Reply-To: <199409081812.OAA12754@geog1.umd.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk [Strange, I keep hearing, "If you build it, they will come." -- KLM] As part of the process of creating a the DC.SAGE group, I'd like to announce a new mailing list: dc-sage@mrj.com to subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@mrj.com with the line subscribe dc-sage in the body of the message. Here's the blurb from the .info file: ----------------------------------- WELCOME TO THE DC.SAGE MAILING LIST ----------------------------------- DC.SAGE is a local SAGE group for the Metropolitan Washington, D.C. area. At the moment we don't have an agenda (or a membership list for that matter!), so please help us decide how to make your local SAGE group the most useful to you! Among the things we'd like to see are monthly meetings of system administrators. The meetings would be for topical discussions, presentations and a job referral network. This could be used both to advertise open jobs within your group or to look for open jobs for you and/or someone you know. This would be one more method of networking for system admins. ... Ken -- Ken Mayer MRJ, Inc. (703) 385-0722 10455 White Granite Drive (703) 385-4637 fax Oakton, Virginia 22124 kmayer@mrj.com USA "OOP S&M: Drag me. Drop me. Treat me like an object." From sage-members-owner Wed Oct 12 10:24:26 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA09611; Wed, 12 Oct 94 10:24:26 PDT Received: from hplms26.hpl.hp.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA09604; Wed, 12 Oct 94 10:24:21 PDT Received: from hplabsz.hpl.hp.com by hplms26.hpl.hp.com with SMTP (1.36.108.4/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1S) id AA25748; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 10:25:05 -0700 Received: by hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (1.37.109.11/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1) id AA127002653; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 10:24:13 -0700 From: "Laura de Leon" Message-Id: <9410121024.ZM12698@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 10:24:13 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.0.0 15dec93) To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: BayLISA meeting: Larry Wall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk The BayLISA group meets monthly to discuss topics of interest for administration of sites with more than 100 users and/or computers. The meetings are free and open to the public. October 20th: Larry Wall, Netlabs: PERL 5 Perl is a language that attempts to unify concepts from many languages, both natural and artificial. This attempt has been at least partially successful, to judge by the increasing popularity of Perl. Originally perceived as a text-processing language for writing impenetrable one-liners, Perl has recently developed into a language that can be used in polite company. Larry Wall, the author of Perl, will talk about what happens when you try to combine all your favorite languages into one language. He'll present the original design rationale (or, more accurately, irrationale) for Perl, and how "Perl philosophy" is evolving with the development of Perl version 5, and why you should care. NOTE: Election time is coming up in November, with the candidates forum at the October meeting. If you've been thinking about running for the board, send a message to blw@baylisa.org for more information. BayLISA holds monthly meetings on the third Thursday of each month at 7:30 PM (please do not arrive before 7:00). We meet at Synopsys Building C in Mountain View, California off Highway 237 at Middlefield. To get further information on the meeting location, you can request it from the majordomo server on baylisa.org, you can ftp it from ftp.baylisa.org:/BayLISA/location or you can query the BayLISA mail server by cutting and pasting the following line to your shell: echo "index baylisa" | mail majordomo@baylisa.org The BayLISA meetings are being broadcast via mbone. BayLISA makes video tapes of the meetings available to members. For more information on available videos, please send email to: video@baylisa.org For any other information, please send email to: info@baylisa.org If you have any questions, please contact me or the info alias listed above. From sage-members-owner Tue Nov 8 21:43:51 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA03637; Tue, 8 Nov 94 21:43:51 PST Received: from hplms26.hpl.hp.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA03630; Tue, 8 Nov 94 21:43:47 PST Received: from hplabsz.hpl.hp.com by hplms26.hpl.hp.com with SMTP (1.36.108.4/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1S) id AA07911; Tue, 8 Nov 1994 21:44:55 -0800 Received: by hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (1.37.109.11/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1) id AA046749821; Tue, 8 Nov 1994 21:43:41 -0800 From: "Laura de Leon" Message-Id: <9411082143.ZM4672@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 21:43:40 -0800 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.0.0 15dec93) To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: (Fwd) BayLISA meeting: Jonny Goldman: HTTP proxies and data gateways Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk *** SPECIAL MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT *** This November BayLISA will be holding its annual election the board of directors. The meeting will begin at 7:00pm, not 7:30pm as normal, in order for member to pick up their ballots and vote. If your membership has lapsed, or you are not sure, please come anyways, we will have the latest membership list, and plenty of membership forms for you to renew your membership. ************************************* The BayLISA group meets monthly to discuss topics of interest to systems and network administrators. The meetings are free and open to the public. BayLISA holds monthly meetings on the third Thursday of each month at 7:30 PM (please do not arrive before 7:00). We meet at Synopsys Building C in Mountain View, California off Highway 237 at Middlefield. Schedule -------- November 17th: Jonny Goldman: HTTP proxies and data gateways With the explosion in the availability of information on the Internet and tools to access them (like WAIS, Gopher and the World Wide Web/Mosaic), a need has arisen to both protect private networks while allowing users inside those networks access using the tools. In addition, organizations are looking to provide their current information sources using these new tools. In my talk I will outline some of the methods for allowing internal network access to these information sources using gateways and proxies. I will also give some examples of gateways from internal information sources to these tools. December 15th: Stupid Unix Tricks Bring your stupid user tricks, stupid admin tricks, stupid computer tricks, whatever you've got. This meeting will NOT be broadcast on the mbone. To get further information on the meeting location, you can request it from the majordomo server on baylisa.org, you can ftp it from ftp.baylisa.org:/BayLISA/location or you can query the BayLISA mail server by cutting and pasting the following line to your shell: echo "index baylisa" | mail majordomo@baylisa.org Starting this May, 1994, and going through the rest of the year, we plan on broadcasting our meetings via MBONE. For more information, please send email to: mbone@baylisa.org BayLISA makes video tapes of the meetings available to members. For more information on available videos, please send email to: video@baylisa.org For any other information, please send email to: info@baylisa.org If you have any questions, please contact me or any of the info alias listed above. From sage-members-owner Fri Nov 25 17:01:22 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA20011; Fri, 25 Nov 94 17:01:22 PST Received: from pain.csrv.uidaho.edu by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA20004; Fri, 25 Nov 94 17:01:19 PST Received: from localhost (fn@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pain.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA08139 for ; Fri, 25 Nov 1994 16:58:03 GMT Posted-Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 16:58:03 GMT Message-Id: <199411251658.QAA08139@pain.csrv.uidaho.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: pain.csrv.uidaho.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: hmm. X-Real-Name: Faried Nawaz X-Address: Box 3582, Moscow, Id 83843-1914 X-Phone: 1 (208) 882 8896 Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 16:58:01 +0000 From: Faried Nawaz Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk *ahem* Quite quiet here, it seems... -- faried nawaz921@uidaho.edu student sysadmin, computer services university of idaho, moscow, id 83844-3155 From sage-members-owner Mon Nov 28 06:47:37 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA08290; Mon, 28 Nov 94 06:47:37 PST Received: from flowbee.interaccess.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA08276; Mon, 28 Nov 94 06:47:29 PST Received: from localhost (robt@localhost) by flowbee.interaccess.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA21768; Mon, 28 Nov 1994 08:44:52 -0600 Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 08:44:52 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Owen Thomas Subject: Re: hmm. To: Faried Nawaz Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG In-Reply-To: <199411251658.QAA08139@pain.csrv.uidaho.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk standard fare for this list, i am afraid... o Robert Owen Thomas -- Cymru Consulting o o Unix Admin, Networking, Security, Internet, RDBMS, App Development o o e-mail: robt@cymru.com or info@cymru.com o o vox: 708.686.3600 fax: 708.686.3600 (it works, trust me) o o "When I die, I want to go sleeping like my grandfather... o o Not screaming like the passengers in his car!" o From sage-members-owner Mon Nov 28 12:23:55 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA12500; Mon, 28 Nov 94 12:23:55 PST Received: from colossus.cse.psu.edu by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA12493; Mon, 28 Nov 94 12:23:51 PST Received: from localhost by colossus.cse.psu.edu with SMTP id <45556>; Mon, 28 Nov 1994 15:23:09 -0500 To: Robert Owen Thomas Cc: Faried Nawaz , sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: hmm. X-Work-Address: Department of Computer Science, 121A Pond Laboratory The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802 X-Work-Phone: +1 814 863 1142 (Voice) +1 814 865 3176 (FAX) In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 28 Nov 1994 09:44:52 EST. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 15:23:00 -0500 From: Daniel R Ehrlich Message-Id: <94Nov28.152309est.45556@colossus.cse.psu.edu> Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk >standard fare for this list, i am afraid... > > o Robert Owen Thomas -- Cymru Consulting o > o Unix Admin, Networking, Security, Internet, RDBMS, App Development o > o e-mail: robt@cymru.com or info@cymru.com o > o vox: 708.686.3600 fax: 708.686.3600 (it works, trust me) o > o "When I die, I want to go sleeping like my grandfather... o > o Not screaming like the passengers in his car!" o > > OK. Here's one for you. Anyone know when the election results will be announced to the membership? Dan Ehrlich - Systems Analyst - PSU Computer Science and Engineering "Universities should be safe havens where ruthless examination of realities will not be distorted by the aim to please or inhibited by the risk of displeasure." - Kingman Brewster 2.6 fingerprint = 5C 01 7F 57 B0 AB 68 72 04 23 B9 BD 27 AD 85 60 echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln256%Pln256/snlbx]sb3135071790101768542287578439snlbxq'|dc From sage-members-owner Mon Nov 28 13:18:10 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA12928; Mon, 28 Nov 94 13:18:10 PST Received: from phibes.dartmouth.edu by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA12921; Mon, 28 Nov 94 13:18:03 PST Received: (from paw@localhost) by phibes.dartmouth.edu (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA15022; Mon, 28 Nov 1994 16:17:41 -0500 Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 16:17:41 -0500 From: Pat Wilson Message-Id: <199411282117.QAA15022@phibes.dartmouth.edu> To: ehrlich@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: hmm. Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk OK. Here's one for you. Anyone know when the election results will be announced to the membership? Dan Ehrlich - Systems Analyst - PSU Computer Science and Engineering "Universities should be safe havens where ruthless examination of realities will not be distorted by the aim to please or inhibited by the risk of displeasure." - Kingman Brewster 2.6 fingerprint = 5C 01 7F 57 B0 AB 68 72 04 23 B9 BD 27 AD 85 60 echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln256%Pln256/snlbx]sb3135071790101768542287578439snlbxq'|dc According to the (preliminary) schedule I've found, results should be released on or around 12/7/94. This may have slipped a week when I wasn't looking, and of course we'll tell the candidates first... Pat Wilson Chair, SAGE Board Nomimating Committee paw@usenix.org || paw@northstar.dartmouth.edu From sage-members-owner Mon Nov 28 13:19:03 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA12936; Mon, 28 Nov 94 13:19:03 PST Received: from smtpgate.gstone.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA12929; Mon, 28 Nov 94 13:19:00 PST Received: from Microsoft Mail (PU Serial #1024) by smtpgate.gstone.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1 for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1994Nov28.131200.1024.281; Mon, 28 Nov 1994 13:18:46 -0800 From: rschlientz@smtpgate.gstone.com (Schlientz, Rick) To: sage-members@usenix.ORG (sage-members) Message-Id: <1994Nov28.131200.1024.281@smtpgate.gstone.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail via PostalUnion/SMTP for Windows NT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Organization: GreyStone Technology, Inc. - 15010 Ave. of Science, Suite 200, San Diego, CA 92128 Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 13:18:46 -0800 Subject: Network router evaluations. Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk While attending the recent LISA VIII conference, one of the speakers mentioned an FTP site that had all sorts of evaluations on routers and different network connectivity products. It was at one of the major US Universities, and the results from this lab were supposed to be free of the usual vendor hype (that is, unbiased). Does anyone know the address of this site, and if so could they let me know? Thanks! ================================================================ | Rick Schlientz email: rschlientz@gstone.com | Network / Systems Administrator | | /\/\/\ GreyStone Technology, Inc. | / /\/\ \ 15010 Avenue of Science, Suite 200 | \ \/\/ / San Diego, CA 92128 | \/\/\/ Phone: (619)675-7800 Ext. 148 FAX: (619)675-7808 =============================================================== From sage-members-owner Mon Nov 28 13:59:01 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA13269; Mon, 28 Nov 94 13:59:01 PST Received: from zippy.cs.UMD.EDU by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA13259; Mon, 28 Nov 94 13:58:59 PST Received: by zippy.cs.UMD.EDU (8.6.9/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA08939; Mon, 28 Nov 1994 16:58:42 -0500 Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 16:58:42 -0500 From: pete@cs.UMD.EDU (Pete Cottrell) Message-Id: <199411282158.QAA08939@zippy.cs.UMD.EDU> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: hmm. Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Subject: Re: hmm. From: Daniel R Ehrlich OK. Here's one for you. Anyone know when the election results will be announced to the membership? Later in December. I just voted today and the ballot said that the deadline for getting them to the Usenix office was December 5th. I'd expect to see something two or three weeks later. From sage-members-owner Tue Nov 29 06:32:23 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA21078; Tue, 29 Nov 94 06:32:23 PST Received: from amdext.amd.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA21071; Tue, 29 Nov 94 06:32:22 PST Received: from amdint.amd.com by amdext.amd.com with SMTP id AA17337 (5.67a/IDA-1.5+AMD for ); Tue, 29 Nov 1994 06:32:05 -0800 Received: from dvorak.amd.com by amdint.amd.com with SMTP id AA13263 (5.67a/IDA-1.5+AMD); Tue, 29 Nov 1994 06:32:04 -0800 Received: from fremen.amd.com by dvorak.amd.com (4.1/AMDSN-1.18) id AA14872; Tue, 29 Nov 94 08:32:06 CST Received: by fremen.amd.com (4.1/AMDC-1.20) id AA15464; Tue, 29 Nov 94 08:32:03 CST Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 08:32:03 CST From: John.Jarocki@amd.com (John Jarocki) Message-Id: <9411291432.AA15464@fremen.amd.com> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG, rschlientz@smtpgate.gstone.com Subject: Re: Network router evaluations. Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk | While attending the recent LISA VIII conference, one of the speakers | mentioned an FTP site that had all sorts of evaluations on routers and | different network connectivity products. It was at one of the major US | Universities, and the results from this lab were supposed to be free of the | usual vendor hype (that is, unbiased). | | Does anyone know the address of this site, and if so could they let me know? | Thanks! | | | ================================================================ | | Rick Schlientz email: rschlientz@gstone.com Rick, I'm going to guess this was a reference to Scott Bradner's (sob@harvard.edu) work at Harvard University. The site was hsdndev.harvard.edu, but it has apparently been (temporarily?) moved to newdev.harvard.edu. Look in the network device test labs directory (/pub/ndtl) for more information. cheers, --john -- ________________________________________________________________________ John Jarocki \____ |Advanced CAD Technology & Systems System Administrator /| | |Micro 5204 E. Ben White M/S 553 | |___| |Devices Austin, Texas 78741 |____/ \| ---------john.jarocki@AMD.COM voice:512-602-4098 fax:512-602-5156------- From sage-members-owner Tue Nov 29 07:41:27 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA21571; Tue, 29 Nov 94 07:41:27 PST Received: from aero.org by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA21542; Tue, 29 Nov 94 07:41:20 PST Received: from simba.aero.org ([130.221.128.205]) by aero.org with SMTP id <111174-2>; Tue, 29 Nov 1994 07:40:47 -0800 Received: by simba.aero.org/D8/sws-04; Tue, 29 Nov 94 07:42:07 PST Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 07:42:07 -0800 From: Glenn Bailey Posted-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 07:42:07 PST Message-Id: <9411291542.AA05907@simba.aero.org> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG, rschlientz@smtpgate.gstone.com Subject: Re: Network router evaluations. Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Rick Schlientz wrote: *> *> *> While attending the recent LISA VIII conference, one of the speakers *> mentioned an FTP site that had all sorts of evaluations on routers and *> different network connectivity products. It was at one of the major US *> Universities, and the results from this lab were supposed to be free of the *> usual vendor hype (that is, unbiased). *> *> Does anyone know the address of this site, and if so could they let me know? *> Thanks! *> =============================================================== *> Are you perhaps thinking of the Harvard Network Laboratory run by Scott Bradner? Try sob@harvard.edu for questions, anon ftp newdev.harvard.edu (apparently a temporary machine while the machine published in the LISA tutorial (hsdndev.harvard .edu is being shifted). ================================================================= => Glenn Bailey | The Aerospace Corporation <= => gbailey@aero.org | El Segundo, California <= => (310) 336-8316 |-----------------------------------<= => ********************* | Engineering Workstation Support <= ================================================================= From sage-members-owner Tue Nov 29 14:01:32 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA26969; Tue, 29 Nov 94 14:01:32 PST Received: from piper.cs.colorado.edu by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA26961; Tue, 29 Nov 94 14:01:26 PST Received: (from evi@localhost) by piper.cs.colorado.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA25035; Tue, 29 Nov 1994 15:00:24 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 15:00:24 -0700 From: Evi Nemeth Message-Id: <199411292200.PAA25035@piper.cs.colorado.edu> To: rschlientz@smtpgate.gstone.com, sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: Network router evaluations. Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk its at harvard university, done by scott bradner. the site is hsdndev.harvard.edu in the directory pub/ndtl. -evi From sage-members-owner Fri Dec 2 15:25:33 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA03729; Fri, 2 Dec 94 15:25:33 PST Received: from amdext.amd.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA03721; Fri, 2 Dec 94 15:25:30 PST Received: from amdint.amd.com by amdext.amd.com with SMTP id AA13694 (5.67a/IDA-1.5+AMD for ); Fri, 2 Dec 1994 15:25:22 -0800 Received: from dvorak.amd.com by amdint.amd.com with SMTP id AA07125 (5.67a/IDA-1.5+AMD for ); Fri, 2 Dec 1994 15:25:21 -0800 Received: from fremen.amd.com by dvorak.amd.com (4.1/AMDSN-1.18) id AA18161; Fri, 2 Dec 94 17:25:24 CST Received: by fremen.amd.com (4.1/AMDC-1.20) id AA23744; Fri, 2 Dec 94 17:25:19 CST Date: Fri, 2 Dec 94 17:25:19 CST From: John.Jarocki@amd.com (John Jarocki) Message-Id: <9412022325.AA23744@fremen.amd.com> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Wither track? Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Does anyone know where I can find track, the system configuration synchronization tool? We use an rdist-based system here, but I want to make a comparison. tia! --john From sage-members-owner Fri Dec 2 18:10:21 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA05100; Fri, 2 Dec 94 18:10:21 PST Received: from hardees.rutgers.edu by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA05093; Fri, 2 Dec 94 18:10:18 PST Received: by hardees.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.5/3.08) id AA08934; Fri, 2 Dec 94 21:10:09 EST Date: Fri, 2 Dec 94 21:10:08 EST From: "Beth E. Binde" To: John.Jarocki@amd.com (John Jarocki) Cc: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Re: Wither track? In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 2 Dec 94 17:25:19 CST Message-Id: Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk > Does anyone know where I can find track, the system configuration > synchronization tool? We use an rdist-based system here, but I > want to make a comparison. > > tia! > --john > Track was originally developed at AT&T but has since been refined (and of course, improved) here at Rutgers University. Please contact Mel Pleasant (pleasant@noc.rutgers.edu) for further information about (possible) availability. Beth E. Binde, Systems Programmer Rutgers University Computing Services, Piscataway, NJ 08855-0879 USA EMAIL: binde@noc.rutgers.edu VOICE: 908-445-5019 FAX: 908-445-2968 From sage-members-owner Tue Dec 6 16:06:00 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA26359; Tue, 6 Dec 94 16:06:00 PST Received: from rigel.dartmouth.edu by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA26352; Tue, 6 Dec 94 16:05:57 PST Received: from rigel.dartmouth.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rigel.dartmouth.edu (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA18802; Tue, 6 Dec 1994 19:05:57 -0500 Message-Id: <199412070005.TAA18802@rigel.dartmouth.edu> To: sage-announce@usenix.ORG, sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: SAGE Election Results! Date: Tue, 6 Dec 94 19:05:56 EST From: Pat Wilson Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Hot off the wire: The results of the elections for three director seats on the SAGE Board of Directors for the 1995-97 term are as follows: Directors: Elected for 1995 & 1996, two-year term Kim Carney 359 Bryan MacDonald 298 Hal Miller 262 ---------------------------- Not Elected: Adam Moskowitz 171 Jim Duncan 155 Total Ballots Cast = 467 Four directors (Paul Evans, Paul Moriarty, Pat Wilson, and Elizabeth Zwicky) will return to the SAGE Board of Directors for 1995. These Board members will complete their two-year term at the end of 1995. The SAGE Board of Directors will choose its own officers after each general election every year (at their January 17, 1995 regular board meeting). Our congratulations to the winners, heartfelt thanks to _all_ of the candidates, and cheers to SAGE members who voted! Come meet the new Board at the January Open Board Meeting on Wednesday, Jan 18 in New Orleans! Pat Wilson SAGE Board From sage-members-owner Wed Dec 7 02:43:48 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA03346; Wed, 7 Dec 94 02:43:48 PST Received: from med.unc.edu (durham.med.unc.edu) by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA03339; Wed, 7 Dec 94 02:43:39 PST Received: from hamlet.med.unc.edu by med.unc.edu (4.1/SMI-4.0-ACB-1.0) id AA20577; Wed, 7 Dec 94 05:43:31 EST Received: by hamlet.med.unc.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA00621; Wed, 7 Dec 1994 05:43:31 -0500 Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 05:43:31 -0500 From: blanchar@durham.med.unc.edu (Anne C. Blanchard) Message-Id: <9412071043.AA00621@hamlet.med.unc.edu> To: sage-members@usenix.ORG Subject: Technical Question Cc: glenn_lewis@unc.edu X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Please refer this to another mail list if this is not the proper venue for such questions. I am running SunSoft's Solaris 2.4 on a SPARCserver 20. We do cpio backups to WANGdat drives. I have tape backups of several thousand home directories in two directories which I did just prior to a disk failure. As good as this sounds, I cannot restore the entire filesystems from the tape. Each tape cpio archive quits with and error "Bad Magic Number/Header." I had though that perhaps the new disk did not have enough inodes (a problem with our home partitions...), but I have packed as many inodes as possible in the new partitions, but the errors are the same. I have tried to restore from a tape cut several days earlier, but we come to the same end at the same place each time. I have copied everything to another SPARCserver 20 with different disks - same problems. All this work has taken many hours, since one tape pass takes over three hours. I'm running low on sleep and patience. The logs of the backups show normal and successful completion of the backups each time. WHAT I REALLY NEED TO KNOW: what does the error from cpio "Bad Magic Number/Header." mean, what triggers it?? We are using cpio as a transition from afio to something more - ummm - fashionable - Solaris Networker is what we are going to set up when we get through this patch of disk problems... In case my return address gets nibbled, it is as follows: blanchar@med.unc.edu Thanks in advance, Anne C. Blanchard UNIX SysProg/SysAdmin UNC School of Medicine Office of Information Systems From sage-members-owner Thu Dec 8 14:52:53 1994 Received: by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA24991; Thu, 8 Dec 94 14:52:53 PST Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by usenix.ORG (4.1/1.29-emg890317) id AA24505; Thu, 8 Dec 94 14:14:12 PST Received: from gaea.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA24858 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 8 Dec 1994 14:10:44 -0800 Received: from phakt.synopsys.com by gaea.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA01123 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 8 Dec 1994 14:10:41 -0800 Message-Id: <199412082210.AA01123@gaea.synopsys.com> To: sage-announce@usenix.ORG, sage-members@usenix.ORG, baylisa@baylisa.org, bblisa-announce@cs.umb.edu, groupname@plts.org, ncsa-announce@cs.unc.edu, nysa@esm.com Subject: LISA 9 Call for Participation Date: Thu, 08 Dec 94 14:10:40 -0800 From: ple@Synopsys.COM Sender: sage-members-owner@usenix.ORG Precedence: bulk Enclosed is the LISA 9 Call For Participation. As you can see, abstracts are not due for many months but, in order to insure the highest quality LISA conference possible, we're out encouraging folks now to consider writing papers. There is a list of potential topics to write about included in the CFP, but papers are not limited to those topics. What we *really* want is to hear from the system administration community about what system administrators are doing and how they are doing it. If you haven't submitted a paper before, please don't let that deter you. We are able to help you get your paper written (but it is likely that what you really need is a post-English teacher to tell you that your writing is really OK after all! ;-). Additionally, if your management cringes at the thought of paying to send you to conferences, one author of each accepted paper in the refereed paper track (and all invited talk speakers) will receive complimentary registration to the conference sessions. Lastly, we'd like to get an idea of how we're doing in our efforts to recruit papers like yours. If you are considering submitting a paper, would you take the time now to send us some email and tell us that, along with the topic you're considering? Nothing formal, just a one-liner will do. It would really help us in trying to put on a good LISA for all of us to learn from and enjoy. Tina M. Darmohray and Paul Evans -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ANNOUNCEMENT & CALL FOR PARTICIPATION 9th USENIX SYSTEMS ADMINISTRATION CONFERENCE (LISA IX) September 18-22, 1995 Marriott Hotel Monterey, California Co-sponsored by USENIX, the UNIX and Advanced Computing Systems Professional and Technical Association, and SAGE, the System Administrators Guild IMPORTANT DATES Refereed paper submissions: Extended abstracts due: May 1, 1995 Notification to authors: June 5, 1995 Final papers due: August 1, 1995 Registration materials available: July, 1995 The USENIX Systems Administration (LISA) Conference is widely recognized as the leading technical conference for system administrators. Historically, LISA stood for "Large Installation Systems Administration," back in the days when having a large installation meant having over 100 users, over 100 systems, or over one gigabyte of disk storage. Today, the scope of the LISA conference includes topics of interest to system administrators from sites of all sizes and kinds. What the conference attendees have in common is an interest in solving problems that cannot be dealt with simply by scaling up well-understood solutions appropriate to a single machine or a small number of workstations on a LAN. The theme for this year's conference is "New Challenges," which includes such emerging issues as integration of non-UNIX and proprietary systems and networking technologies, distributed information services, network voice and video teleconferencing, and managing very complex networks. We are particularly interested in technical papers that reflect hands-on experience, describe fully implemented and freely distributable solutions, and advance the state of the art of system administration as an engineering discipline. TUTORIAL PROGRAM Monday and Tuesday, September 18-19, 1995 The two-day tutorial program at the conference offers up to five tracks of full- and half-day tutorials. Tutorials offer expert instruction in areas of interest to system administrators of all levels, from novice through senior. Topics are expected to include networking, advanced system administration tools, Solaris and BSD administration, Perl programming, firewalls, NIS, DNS, Sendmail, and more. To provide the best possible tutorial offerings, USENIX continually solicits proposals for new tutorials. If you are interested in presenting a tutorial at this or other USENIX conferences, please contact the tutorial coordinator: Daniel V. Klein +1 412 421 0285 FAX: +1 412 421 2332 E-mail: dvk@usenix.org TECHNICAL SESSIONS Wednesday through Friday, September 20-22, 1995 The three days of technical sessions consist of two parallel tracks. The first track is dedicated to presentations of refereed technical papers. The second track is intended to accommodate invited talks, panels and Works-in-Progress (WIP) sessions. CONFERENCE TOPICS Papers addressing the following topics are particularly timely; papers addressing other technical areas of general interest are equally welcome. % Your plans for the year 2000 % Deployment of new networking technologies (ATM) % Dealing with differences in UNIX implementations -- migration and interoperability among BSD, SVR4, OSF and others % Integration of UNIX-based with non-UNIX-based and proprietary systems and networking technologies (Mac, NT and DOS PCs) % Application of emerging technologies (Mbone, Mosaic) to system administration % Administration and security of distributed information services (WAIS, gopher, WWW) and network voice and video teleconferencing (Mbone) % Experience supporting mobile and location-independent computing % Experience with large (1000+ machine) networks, especially networks of SVR4-based systems % Real-world experience with implementations of proposed system administration standards % Unusual applications of commercial system administration software packages % Application of operational planning techniques to system administration including measurements and metrics, continuous process improvement, automation, and increasing productivity % File migration, archival storage and backup systems in extremely large environments % Innovative tools and techniques that have worked for you % Managing high-demand and high-availability environments % Migrating to new hardware and software technologies % Administration of remote sites that have no technical experts % Supporting MIS organizations on UNIX % Real-world experiences with emerging procedural/ethical issues -- e.g., developing site policies, tracking abusers, and implementing solutions to security problems % Coping with the commercialization of the Internet % Support models in use at your site % Networking non-traditional sites (libraries, museums, K-12) REFEREED PAPER SUBMISSIONS An extended abstract is required for the paper selection process. Full papers are not acceptable at this stage; if you send a full paper, you must also include an extended abstract. "Extended" means 2-5 pages. Include references to establish that you are familiar with related work, and, where possible, provide detailed performance data to establish that you have a working implementation or measurement tool. Submissions will be judged on the quality of the written submission, and whether or not the work advances the state of the art of system administration. For more detailed author instructions and a sample extended abstract, send email to lisa9authors@usenix.org. or call USENIX at +1 510 528 8649. Note that the USENIX organization, like most conferences and journals, requires that papers not be submitted simultaneously to more than one conference or publication and that submitted papers not be previously or subsequently published elsewhere. Papers accompanied by "non-disclosure agreement" forms are not acceptable and will be returned unread. All submissions are held in the highest confidence prior to publication in the conference proceedings, both as a matter of policy and as protected by the U.S. Copyright Act of 1976. Authors of an accepted paper must provide a final paper for publication in the conference proceedings. At least one author of each accepted paper presents the paper at the conference. Final papers are limited to 20 pages, including diagrams, figures and appendixes, and must be in troff, ASCII, or LaTeX format. We will supply you with instructions. Papers should include a brief description of the site, where appropriate. Conference proceedings, containing all refereed papers and materials from the invited talks, will be distributed to attendees and will also be available from the USENIX following the conference. WHERE TO SEND SUBMISSIONS Please submit extended abstracts for the refereed paper track by two of the following methods: % E-mail to: lisa9papers@usenix.org % FAX to: +1 510 548 5738 % Mail to: LISA 9 Conference USENIX Association 2560 Ninth Street, Suite 215, Berkeley, CA USA 94710 To discuss potential submissions, and for inquiries regarding the content of the conference program, contact the program co-chairs at lisa9chair@usenix.org or at: Tina M. Darmohray Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory PO Box 808 L-510 Livermore, CA USA 94550 +1 510 423 5999 FAX: +1 510 422 7869 E-mail: tmd@usenix.org Paul Evans Synopsys, Inc. 700 East Middlefield Road Mountain View, CA USA 94043 +1 415 694 1855 FAX: +1 415 965 8637 E-mail: ple@usenix.org INVITED TALK TRACK If you have a topic of general interest to system administrators, but that is not suited for a traditional technical paper submission, please submit a proposal for a second track presentation to the invited talk (IT) coordinators at itlisa@usenix.org or at: Laura de Leon, Hewlett-Packard +1 415 857 5605 FAX: +1 415 857 5686 E-mail: deleon@hpl.hp.com Peg Schafer, BBN +1 617 873-2626 FAX: +1 617 873 4265 E-mail: peg@bbn.com PROGRAM COMMITTEE Program Co-chair: Tina Darmohray, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Program Co-chair: Paul Evans, Synopsys, Inc. Paul Anderson, University of Edinburgh Kim Carney, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Rob Kolstad, Berkeley Software Design, Inc. Bryan McDonald, SRI International Marcus Ranum, Trusted Information Systems, Inc. John Schimmel, Silicon Graphics, Inc. VENDOR DISPLAY Wednesday, September 20, 1995 Well-informed vendor representatives will demonstrate products and services at the informal table-top display. If your company would like to participate, please contact: Zanna Knight +1 510 528 8649 FAX: +1 510 548 5738 E-mail: display@usenix.org BIRDS-OF-A-FEATHER SESSIONS Birds-of-a-Feather sessions (BoFs) are very informal gatherings of attendees interested in a particular topic. BoFs are held Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday evenings of the conference. BoFs may be scheduled in advance by telephoning the USENIX Conference Office at +1 714 588 8649 or via e-mail to conference@usenix.org. They may also be scheduled at the conference. FOR REGISTRATION INFORMATION All details of the conference program, conference registration fees and forms, and hotel discount and reservation information will be available in July, 1995. If you wish to receive registration materials, please contact: USENIX Conference Office 22672 Lambert Street, Suite 613 Lake Forest, CA USA 92630 +1 714 588 8649 FAX: +1 714 588 9706 E-mail: conference@usenix.org For more information about USENIX and its events, access the USENIX Resource Center on the World Wide Web. The URL is http://www.usenix.org. OR send email to our mailserver at info@usenix.org. Your message should contain the line: send catalog. A catalog will be returned to you.