From brent at GreatCircle.COM Mon May 3 19:03:38 1993 From: brent at GreatCircle.COM (Brent Chapman) Date: Mon, 03 May 93 19:03:38 -0700 Subject: New "SAGE-Announce" mailing list Message-ID: <9305040203.AA20788@mycroft.GreatCircle.COM> There has been some disagreement lately because some folks expect SAGE at USENIX.ORG to be a discussion list, while others expect it to be an "announcements-only" list. Partly this was because there was no charter for the mailing list. To clarify the situation, and to hopefully accomodate everybody, a new mailing list (SAGE-Announce at USENIX.ORG) has been created, and charters for SAGE and SAGE-Announce have been written that make it clear that SAGE is for discussions and SAGE-Announce is only for announcements. The SAGE at USENIX.ORG mailing list is for discussions of items of interest to SAGE members. Discussions are explicitly encouraged on this mailing list. The SAGE-Announce at USENIX.ORG mailing list is for announcements relevant to SAGE members (for instance, conference announcements, SAGE board meeting minutes, copies of SAGE press releases, etc.). It is explicitly NOT a discussion list; discussions should take place on the SAGE at USENIX.ORG mailing list. SAGE-Announce has initially been created with the same membership that the SAGE mailing list currently has; if you're on the SAGE mailing list, you're now on the SAGE-Announce mailing list. You can unsubscribe from either list by sending email to "Majordomo at USENIX.ORG" with a line like the following in the body (not the "Subject:" line) of the message: unsubscribe sage or unsubscribe sage-announce If you are subscribed with an address other than the one you're sending your message from, you can append the subscription address to the "unsubscribe" command (i.e., "unsubscribe sage nobody at somewhere.com"). If you're not sure what address you're subscribed with, you can send the command "who sage" or "who sage-announce" to see all the addresses on the list, or the command "which " to see all the addresses on all the lists that contain that string (i.e., "which brent" will find all the addresses on all the lists that have "brent" in them somewhere). -Brent (SAGE-Postmaster at USENIX.ORG) -- Brent Chapman Great Circle Associates Brent at GreatCircle.COM 1057 West Dana Street +1 415 962 0841 Mountain View, CA 94041 From tom_limoncelli at Warren.MENTORG.COM Tue Jul 6 15:39:58 1993 From: tom_limoncelli at Warren.MENTORG.COM (tom_limoncelli at Warren.MENTORG.COM) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 17:39:58 -0500 (EDT) Subject: NEW JERSEY: Introducing the GSLISA Mailing List Message-ID: <9307062139.AA03538@worf.Warren.MENTORG.COM> [ Testing... testing... 1... 2... 3... is this thing on? ] INTRODUCING: The Garden State LISA Mailing List The purpose of the GSLISA (pronounced Gee Ess Lisa) mailing list is to discuss the formation of a LISA or SAGE-like organization in the Garden State (which is New Jersey, for those that don't know). Historicly there have been a large number of Unix sites in New Jersey. Rumor has it that Unix was even invented here. However, there is currently no Unix users' group or sysadmin-focused organization. The first order of business will be to pick a better name for the organization. Then, of course, we must decide on goals and structure for the newly named organization. Initially it is our hope that GSLISA will start small [possibly just a monthly meeting at a centrally located diner with no official structure] and expand to include regular meetings at locations where machines can be set up and demos can be, um, demonstrated. To subscribe to the mailing list: % echo subscribe gslisa | mail majordomo at warren.mentorg.com Or, send email to majordomo at warren.mentorg.com with subscribe gslisa in the body. The "Subject:" header is ignored. -- Tom Limoncelli -- tal at warren.mentorg.com (work) -- tal at plts.org (play) "Some people run 'biff' to alert them that | Disclaimer: I do not they have new email. I run '/bin/true'". | speak for Mentor Graphics. From peg at BBN.COM Fri Aug 13 13:32:57 1993 From: peg at BBN.COM (Peg Schafer) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 93 16:32:57 EDT Subject: Call for Nominees for Election to the SAGE Board of Directors Message-ID: <9308132034.AA02428@usenix.ORG> Call for Nominees for Election to the SAGE Board of Directors Peg Schafer The System Administrators Guild (SAGE) is at an exciting point - we will turn one year old this fall. Response has been tremendous, our membership is larger than expected, and we have made significant progress this year. Participation on the board of directors is an opportunity to make a significant contribution to the development of the practice of system administration. Anyone who is interested in the development of SAGE, and who is willing to work, is cordially invited to consider a position on the board of directors. The Facts The SAGE charter calls for staggered, two-year terms for board members: half of the board is elected one year, the other half the next. As SAGE will turn 1 year old this fall, 4 positions on the board will be up for election. In this second election, to be held this fall, four directors will be chosen for 2 year terms, beginning January 1, 1994. The SAGE Board chooses its own officers after each general election (every year). The current board consists of Carol Kubicki, Paul Moriarty, Pat Parseghian, Peg Schafer, Steve Simmons, Pat Wilson, and Elizabeth Zwicky. The SAGE Directors who were elected for 1993 and 1994, and who will remain on the board, are Pat Parseghian, Steve Simmons and Peg Schafer. SAGE is accepting nominations for 4 new members of the governing board until 12 noon PST, Friday, November 5. Anyone interested in running for the SAGE board should send his or her name and telephone number, along with a brief statement, to the nominating committee . You can also send U.S. Mail to the SAGE Nominating Committee in care of the USENIX Association. The nominating committee will gather the candidates' names and contact each of them before the election takes place. At the USENIX LISA Conference, to be held November 1-5, 1993 in Monterey, CA, there will be a candidates' forum to enable prospective board members to introduce themselves and talk about the issues. Prospective board members unable to attend the LISA conference will be able to submit a position paper to this forum. The new board will take office in January, 1994, with the first board meeting to be held at the Winter USENIX conference in San Francisco. Current estimates indicate that the new board will have at least 4 meetings a year, three at LISA and USENIX technical conferences, and other meetings via telephone. At this time board members are responsible for travel and lodging expenses to attend meetings. Questions may be directed to Peg Schafer, chair of the SAGE election committee . All inquires will be kept confidential. From pep at research.att.com Thu Sep 16 14:25:51 1993 From: pep at research.att.com (pep at research.att.com) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 17:25:51 EDT Subject: PERL talk (NJ, $GROUPNAME meeting) Message-ID: <9309162114.AA28390@usenix.ORG> The September meeting of $GROUPNAME, a professional/technical organization of UNIX system administrators in the New Jersey area, will be held: Thursday, September 23, 1993 7:30 p.m. CoRE Bldg., Rutgers University, Busch Campus Lecture Hall, First Floor Speaker: Tom Christiansen Topic: The Perl Programming Language While shell scripts are often touted as one of Unix's strengths, the philosophy of having many dedicated programs each doing one thing well becomes a weakness as the complexity and magnitude of the problems increase. Performance and maintainability both suffer. The shell lacks the data structures, control flow mechanisms, and error handling procedures needed to conveniently support all but the simplest of tasks. The deficiencies have historically inspired programmers either to devise inscrutable hacks or break down and write a C program for a comparatively simple task. Even awk, the most general purpose Unix tool (apart from the C compiler :-) lacks certain programming facilities and access to low-level system attributes needed for many medium-sized systems programming tasks. Perl, the most significant general-purpose Unix tool to appear in the last decade addresses these and other issues. Because it is one program rather than a dozen, it is often cleaner to express a programming problem in perl than in the shell and its myriad allies, is dramatically more efficient, and can address problem hitherto accessible only to crack C programmers. Perl is a C-like interpreted language in wide use in the Unix community, especially in sysadmin circles. Because it incorporates aspects of more than a dozen other Unix tools, experienced Unix users will come up to speed on Perl rapidly. Tom will speak at an introductory level on Perl and has also promised to say a few words about Perl 5. Bring your favorite Perl sysadmin tool and share it with the group, after the talk. FOR DIRECTIONS: Cut and paste the following command to a Unix shell and directions to the next meeting will be mailed to you. echo sendme directions | mail majordomo at warren.mentorg.com From pep at research.att.com Tue Sep 21 07:53:44 1993 From: pep at research.att.com (pep at research.att.com) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 10:53:44 EDT Subject: SAGE Board Meeting Highlights, 6/93 Message-ID: <9309211442.AA06593@usenix.ORG> SAGE Board Meeting Highlights by Pat Parseghian, Secretary The SAGE board of directors met on June 22, 1993 at the USENIX Conference in Cincinnati. Attendance SAGE Board of Directors: Carol Kubicki, Paul Moriarty, Pat Parseghian, Peg Schafer, Steve Simmons, Pat Wilson, Elizabeth Zwicky USENIX Board of Directors: Eric Allman, Tom Christiansen USENIX Staff: Diane DeMartini, Cynthia Deno, Ellie Young Others: Tina Darmohray, Greg Rose Report on USENIX Board Meeting Simmons had reported to USENIX that SAGE is under budget and ahead of projections on mem- bership. The USENIX board is pleased with SAGE's efforts and offered us congratulations. SAGE is ahead of projections on membership. Financial Report Young reported that SAGE's income will exceed our budget projections for the year, thanks to the success of the SANS II conference we co-spon- sored with FedUNIX. The board agreed to think about funding new member benefits with the additional money. The board also discussed some ideas for spending funds in our miscellaneous account, perhaps on awards or promotional items for members. Co-sponsoring SANS III `94 Everyone agreed that we should co-sponsor this conference again. Moriarty volunteered to work with Alan Paller to help with the schedule and program committee. USENIX will produce the proceedings for a fee. System Management Track at UniForum UniForum has approached USENIX/SAGE to pro- vide a three-day track at their San Francisco meet- ing in mid-March 1994. A subcommittee has been formed to work on this, including Schafer and Zwicky from the SAGE board. Logo The board selected a logo for SAGE (see below) from the samples provided by the logo subcom- mittee. We believe the logo can be easily adapted for use by our affiliated groups (e.g., international groups such as SAGE-AU). Publicity The publisher O'Reilly will publicize SAGE in their catazine. Deno reported that direct mail is more effective than advertising, for the money, and will make a proposal for SAGE to try one mailing. The USENIX staff will provide informa- tion and prices for promotional items such as t-shirts, coffee mugs, polo-shirts and caps, to be sold at the LISA conference in November. Next SAGE Board Election The SAGE bylaws specify that an upcoming elec- tion be announced six months in advance; since this deadline had passed, the board voted to sus- pend this requirement for the next election. Scha- fer agreed to head the nominating committee. Nominations will close on November 5, 1993; the deadline for announcing candidacy will be the opening of the candidates' forum at the LISA con- ference. Corporate Sponsorship Everyone agreed that we should follow the USENIX model for supporting memberships. Of the $1000 fee, $700 would be allocated to SAGE and the balance to USENIX. Young would draft a letter to send to prospective corporate/support- ing members. International Rose reported that SAGE-AU has incorporated. They will hold their first conference in June; Zwicky will be one of the speakers. We agreed that SAGE board members who speak at events are ambassadors of SAGE, even though SAGE does not fund their travel expenses. We heard that SAGE-UK expects to launch their group at a conference they're organizing for September. Member Services Schafer, Simmons, and Young agreed to draft a list of SAGE's accomplishments. We agreed to more regularly report on SAGE activities to the membership, as well as to identify more tangible, specific benefits of joining the organization. Working Groups Charter The board discussed the charter drafted by the working groups subcommittee. (See the July/ August 1993 issue of ;login: for a copy of the char- ter.) Everyone agreed that it was consistent with the feedback Simmons had received to his request for status reports from the working group chairs. We set a timetable for distributing the charter to the chairs and working groups so that we could re-evaluate the groups in a teleconfer- ence in mid-August and report to the members on their status. Most of the working groups did not report to Simmons on their status. We discussed a few groups at the meeting. As chair of the Confer- ences and Workshops group, Simmons recom- mended that the group be disbanded (with thanks). We also determined that the Public Rela- tions group should be folded. These two working groups have no real function, since those activi- ties have been assumed by the board and USENIX staff. On behalf of Paul Evans, Zwicky reported that the Education working group is writing position papers on four areas, to be presented to the board. Zwicky, McDonald and Young will work on focusing the Publications working group on pro- ducing some regular and irregular publications, in addition to the material they generate for ;login:. Regional LISA Seminars The USENIX staff is looking into possibly organiz- ing some small, regional LISA seminars. A sub- committee has been formed to discuss the possibilities; Simmons will represent SAGE in the discussions. Dual Board Member Status While nothing prohibits someone from running for both the SAGE and USENIX boards, we agreed that candidates should be discouraged from doing so (due to the time commitment involved). Should someone decide to run for both boards anyway, they should be asked specifically to declare their intentions to both communities. Other Business Schafer suggested we consider putting a tool archive on CD-ROM for members. We agreed that future open board meetings at conferences should be scheduled for one hour instead of two, and that Simmons would report on our current activities and financial status at the open board meeting in Cincinnati. Awards In the absence of feedback from the Awards working group, during executive session the board discussed the purpose of an annual SAGE award, possible award names and suitable com- memorative items, as well as potential 1993 recip- ients. We agreed we would like to present the first award at the LISA conference in November. From peg at BBN.COM Fri Sep 24 12:17:12 1993 From: peg at BBN.COM (Peg Schafer) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 15:17:12 EDT Subject: Call for Nominees for Election to the SAGE Board of Directors Message-ID: <9309241912.AA05932@usenix.ORG> Call for Nominees for Election to the SAGE Board of Directors Peg Schafer The System Administrators Guild (SAGE) is at an exciting point - we will turn one year old this fall. Response has been tremendous, our membership is larger than expected, and we have made significant progress this year. Participation on the board of directors is an opportunity to make a significant contribution to the development of the practice of system administration. Anyone who is interested in the development of SAGE, and who is willing to work, is cordially invited to consider a position on the board of directors. The Facts The SAGE charter calls for staggered, two-year terms for board members: half of the board is elected one year, the other half the next. As SAGE will turn 1 year old this fall, 4 positions on the board will be up for election. In this second election, to be held this fall, four directors will be chosen for 2 year terms, beginning January 1, 1994. The SAGE Board chooses its own officers after each general election (every year). The current board consists of Carol Kubicki, Paul Moriarty, Pat Parseghian, Peg Schafer, Steve Simmons, Pat Wilson, and Elizabeth Zwicky. The SAGE Directors who were elected for 1993 and 1994, and who will remain on the board, are Pat Parseghian, Steve Simmons and Peg Schafer. SAGE is accepting nominations for 4 new members of the governing board until 12 noon PST, Friday, November 5. Anyone interested in running for the SAGE board should send his or her name and telephone number, along with a brief statement, to the nominating committee . You can also send U.S. Mail to the SAGE Nominating Committee in care of the USENIX Association. The nominating committee will gather the candidates' names and contact each of them before the election takes place. At the USENIX LISA Conference, to be held November 1-5, 1993 in Monterey, CA, there will be a candidates' forum to enable prospective board members to introduce themselves and talk about the issues. Prospective board members unable to attend the LISA conference will be able to submit a position paper to this forum. The new board will take office in January, 1994, with the first board meeting to be held at the Winter USENIX conference in San Francisco. Current estimates indicate that the new board will have at least 4 meetings a year, three at LISA and USENIX technical conferences, and other meetings via telephone. At this time board members are responsible for travel and lodging expenses to attend meetings. Questions may be directed to Peg Schafer, chair of the SAGE election committee . All inquires will be kept confidential. From etnibsd!vsh at uunet.UU.NET Fri Sep 24 13:00:56 1993 From: etnibsd!vsh at uunet.UU.NET (etnibsd!vsh at uunet.UU.NET) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 16:00:56 EDT Subject: September 29 BBLISA meeting Message-ID: <9309242000.AA02698@grumpy> [ apologies if this is a duplicate posting -- vsh ] ANNOUNCEMENT September 29 BBLISA meeting Topic: Computer Crime Jim Powers of the FBI and a prosecutor from the Attorney General's office will be the speakers next Wednesday's Back Bay LISA meeting. They will be addressing what you should be aware of when administering your site, what we can do to protect ourselves, and what steps you should take when you suspect your system is being wrongly used. Date: Wed., Sept. 29, 7:30pm *[note the changed time]* Where: MIT Room 329 Building E51 70 Memorial Drive (entrance at corner of Wadworth and Amherst) Cambridge, MA Directions: Car: For folks driving, follow Memorial Drive to Wadsworth St. which will take you to the rear of the building. Entrance and parking are at the rear. T: Red Line Kendall Square stop. Head over to Au Bon Pain, take a right onto Wadsworth St. E51 is at the corner of Wadsworth and Amherst. Back Bay LISA (BBLISA) holds monthly meetings, on the last Wednesday of each month, except November and December. Meetings are usually at a Boston-Metro location. Meetings feature a speaker, or a panel of speakers, and time for announcements and group discussion. Topics include all aspects of system administration (both large and small), networking, security, privacy, etc. Membership in the group is FREE. To become a member, join one of the following mailing lists. You'll receive full details of forthcoming meetings, locations, precise dates, etc. BLISA information is distributed by email, only. To join the announcement mailing list, send email to the list server at `bblisa-announce-request at cs.umb.edu' with a text line of `subscribe'. There is also a BBLISA discussion list. To join this list, send a subscribe message to `bblisa-request at cs.umb.edu'. All announcement messages are automatically relayed to this list, so you don't need to join both. -- Steve Harris - Eaton Corp. - Beverly, MA - etnibsd!vsh at uunet.uu.net From brent at GreatCircle.COM Wed Oct 13 08:56:10 1993 From: brent at GreatCircle.COM (Brent Chapman) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 08:56:10 -0700 Subject: Archives for SAGE mailing lists are now available by email Message-ID: <9310131556.AA04037@mycroft.GreatCircle.COM> A new version of Majordomo has been installed on USENIX.ORG. This new version adds "index" and "get" commands to make files available by email. The archives of all the SAGE mailing lists are now available by email through this mechanism. The working group chairs may be adding other files relevant to their groups, as well. The files are organized on a per-mailing-list basis. To find out what files are available for a particular mailing list, send the command "index " (i.e., "index sage-managers") in the body of a message (not the subject line) to Majordomo at USENIX.ORG. To retrieve a particular file related to a given mailing list, send the command "get " (i.e., "get sage-managers sage-managers.archive"). If you want help with Majordomo, send the command "help". -Brent -- Brent Chapman Great Circle Associates Brent at GreatCircle.COM 1057 West Dana Street +1 415 962 0841 Mountain View, CA 94041 From pep at research.att.com Thu Oct 21 11:45:34 1993 From: pep at research.att.com (pep at research.att.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 14:45:34 EDT Subject: new alias, sage-active Message-ID: <9310211847.AA12503@usenix.ORG> The SAGE Board has decided to create a new mail alias, sage-active, to allow us to communicate more closely with members who seek a more active role in the organization. While many members have chosen to participate in one or more working groups, we need a way to stay in close contact with others whose interests may be less specific. The Board plans to share ideas, preliminary projects, drafts, etc. with this group (for feedback), and also hopes that the group will pass along new suggestions and ideas. Membership on the sage-active list is limited to individual SAGE members. To join the list: echo subscribe sage-active | mail majordomo at usenix.org Your subscription will be approved if you are a SAGE member in good standing. If you're interested in getting more involved with SAGE, we'd like to hear from you! From peg at BBN.COM Thu Oct 28 14:50:01 1993 From: peg at BBN.COM (Peg Schafer) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 17:50:01 EDT Subject: Nominations for Election to the SAGE Board Closes November 5 !! Message-ID: <9310282150.AA15533@usenix.ORG> Nominations for Election to the SAGE Board Closes November 5 !! Peg Schafer Now is your chance to make a *significant* contribution to SAGE!! Nominations for candidates for the 4 open positions on the SAGE board will close Friday November 5 at 5pm. Nominees must declare their candidacy to Peg Schafer either in person at the LISA conference or by sending e-mail to peg at bbn.com no later than 5pm, Friday Nov 5 in order to qualify. The Candidates Forum will be held at LISA on Wednesday, November 3 at 7pm. Each candidate will be given an opportunity to present their positions and respond to questions from the membership. Candidates who cannot attend LISA, may submit a position statement which will be presented at the Candidates Forum. The election ballots will be mailed to the membership on November 20th. Each candidate must submit a position statement and a photo to Carolyn Carr (carolyn at usenix.org) no later than Friday November 5 for inclusion in the ballot. The statements should be 150 to 300 words. Black and white passport photos are preferred, color is marginally ok, postscript and facesaver images do not reproduce well enough to be acceptable. The results of the election will be announced around December 20th. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Original Call: Call for Nominees for Election to the SAGE Board of Directors The System Administrators Guild (SAGE) is at an exciting point - we will turn one year old this fall. Response has been tremendous, our membership is larger than expected, and we have made significant progress this year. Participation on the board of directors is an opportunity to make a significant contribution to the development of the practice of system administration. Anyone who is interested in the development of SAGE, and who is willing to work, is cordially invited to consider a position on the board of directors. The Facts The SAGE charter calls for staggered, two-year terms for board members: half of the board is elected one year, the other half the next. As SAGE will turn 1 year old this fall, 4 positions on the board will be up for election. In this second election, to be held this fall, four directors will be chosen for 2 year terms, beginning January 1, 1994. The SAGE Board chooses its own officers after each general election (every year). The current board consists of Carol Kubicki, Paul Moriarty, Pat Parseghian, Peg Schafer, Steve Simmons, Pat Wilson, and Elizabeth Zwicky. The SAGE Directors who were elected for 1993 and 1994, and who will remain on the board, are Pat Parseghian, Steve Simmons and Peg Schafer. SAGE is accepting nominations for 4 new members of the governing board until 12 noon PST, Friday, November 5. Anyone interested in running for the SAGE board should send his or her name and telephone number, along with a brief statement, to the nominating committee . You can also send U.S. Mail to the SAGE Nominating Committee in care of the USENIX Association. The nominating committee will gather the candidates' names and contact each of them before the election takes place. At the USENIX LISA Conference, to be held November 1-5, 1993 in Monterey, CA, there will be a candidates' forum to enable prospective board members to introduce themselves and talk about the issues. Prospective board members unable to attend the LISA conference will be able to submit a position paper to this forum. The new board will take office in January, 1994, with the first board meeting to be held at the Winter USENIX conference in San Francisco. Current estimates indicate that the new board will have at least 4 meetings a year, three at LISA and USENIX technical conferences, and other meetings via telephone. At this time board members are responsible for travel and lodging expenses to attend meetings. Questions may be directed to Peg Schafer, chair of the SAGE election committee . All inquires will be kept confidential. From paw at rigel.dartmouth.edu Thu Nov 4 17:27:16 1993 From: paw at rigel.dartmouth.edu (Pat Wilson) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 20:27:16 EST Subject: New SAGE mailing list - sage-jobs-offered Message-ID: <9311050127.AA61936@rigel.dartmouth.edu> SAGE is pleased to announce a new member service: the sage-jobs-offered mailing list, for the posting of open positions to the community. Postings to the list may come from anyone (provided they follow the guidelines listed below), but subscription is limited to SAGE members. Please send comments to paw at northstar.dartmouth.edu Guidelines for sage-jobs-offered submissions: - Positions posted should indicate the offering agency (please note if you're a jobshop/headhunter), the geographic location of the job, plus the usual description of duties and requirements. Don't spend a lot of time on "bluster" ("Foo is the industry leader in the bar world") - if you must include this, put it at the end. - Headhunters and job shops are not prohibited from sending submissions to the list, but use discretion. No more than one listing of a particular job per week, and jobs should be distinct enough that you can say something concrete about them (location, for example). This list is not to be used as a resume-collector - please only post _actual_ positions. - Make it clear if you won't accept email resumes. If you're not going to, be prepared for folks to wonder about your Internet connectivity. Try to be receptive to questions about the posted position - most non-entry-level folks will have a few quick questions they'll want to have answered before they even apply. An email address for this is best. - Indicate in your listing whether you'll accept contractor bids for the job, and if there are residency requirements. If it's a short term job, note that as well. - If there is a definite salary range, include that. There's no reason to waste someone's time if the job is grossly under their required salary. SAGE is initiating a salary survey of members, and those results (constantly updated) will be published. - Make an attempt to follow the SAGE Job Descriptions (available in booklet form from SAGE - contact office at usenix.org for information - or online from ftp.sage.usenix.org as pub/sage/working-groups/jobs-descriptions.Z,)). If you have comments on the descriptions as written, please send them to sage-jobs at usenix.org. sage-jobs-offered will be available by subscription to SAGE members only. The subscriber list will not be available through Majordomo to those not on the list. People interested in _complete_ confidentiality should subscribe through an anonomizing service (but will need to send mail to sage-jobs-offered-owner so that their SAGE member status can be verified).